Weird things that AI countries do . . . .

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    • Weird things that AI countries do . . . .

      All of us who have played COW for more than a handful of games are familiar with some of the very odd things that AI countries will do, especially when they have been left unmolested until late in the game, and they have had the opportunity to fully manifest their programmed "personalities."

      I am presently in the last 2 to 3 days of a 22-player game, and the only players left are two humans (me and an ally), and AI Northern States of America and AI Canada. Most of us have encountered the large fleets of high-level naval units that some AIs will build, but I have now witnessed the single most preposterous, weirdest, most bizarre AI behavior in my 18 COW games to date. . . .

      Contrary to what I would usually expect to find late in the game, the AI Northern States of America did not build a large fleet of destroyers and submarines to patrol its Atlantic coast; in fact, it produced no more than a small handful of mid-level sub units, which was mildly surprising. Well, imagine my surprise when I occupied the Cleveland province that borders on Lake Erie (one of the 5 Great Lakes) and discovered an AI Northern States L6 battleship cruising back and forth in apparent opposition to seven AI Canadian L7 "elite" level cruisers! Keeping in mind, of course, that the in-game versions of the Great Lakes are completely landlocked and have no outlet to the Atlantic Ocean. (NB: the real lakes have access to the Atlantic via the St. Lawrence seaway.)

      Now, that, gentlemen, is just plain weird.

      UPDATE: It just got weirder. Having now completely occupied all of the territory of the AI Northern States of America, I have discovered that there is not just one L6 battleship cruising Lake Erie, but four of them! I hope some of you German and European players have some idea of just how odd it is to see the Bismarck-class battleship icons cruising back and forth on one of the inland Great Lakes of North America. Absolutely bizarre. LOL

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MontanaBB ().

    • i have a theory about this, BB. I have encountered this type of thing myself. I dont think AI builds just high level navy magically; I think rather the game "gifts" the AI with whatever units it needs to defend itself against whatever units are doing the killing. I dont build big navies, so I havent seen huge stacks of orphaned nonsensical convoys. I have run into orphaned navy, but never the way you describe. However, I do build a lot of air force. Like you, I was at the end of a 22 player map. There was one other active player besides myself. I was within 50 or so vps from the win. I entered Finland, and guess what was waiting for me? A stack of 70 interceptors patrolling north of Leningrad, a stack of 30 or so Naval bombers right on top of them, and a stack of about 25 tacs on top of that, and all of them 1 level below elite. I guess thats because the game gave him stacks of elite militia for ground units. There is no way Finland could have created and sustained this force. Well, you can put 2 and 2 together. The games AI doesnt research, earn blueprints, and build armies he way we do. It simply adapts and the game gifts them what they need. Perhaps for game balance, not sure. The end of this tale for me turned out lucky. It was something like day 45 or so and a newcomer actually joined in, and took finland. Then he didnt play or didnt pay attention or something. Anyway I blitzed him with medium tanks and destroyed the airfields while the planes patrolled and didnt move. I loved seeing "Finland lost 23 interceptors to the romanian medium tank division" in the paper. I wiped them all out as convoy units. Luck, huh? And the guy never did anything, and he didnt quit, so all that counted towards my stats!
      “I am the flail of god. Had you not created great sins, god would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”


      Genghis Khan
    • Dixie wrote:

      A stack of 70 interceptors patrolling north of Leningrad, a stack of 30 or so Naval bombers right on top of them, and a stack of about 25 tacs on top of that, and all of them 1 level below elite
      Good God.

      I've seen several AI countries with ~100 aircraft squadrons of various types late in the game, but I've never seen 70 squadrons in a single wing.

      I'll let you in on my dirty little secret: I hate the in-game versions of rockets and nuclear missiles because the real V-2 rockets were neither accurate enough, nor powerful enough to wipe out entire regimental or brigade-size units; the in-game versions are an order of magnitude more accurate and more powerful than the real thing was. Most days, the Germans were lucky enough to hit cities the size of London or Amsterdam with their V-2s, let alone a combat unit in the field. The only attempted tactical use of the V-2 on record -- when the Germans were desperate to destroy the Ludendorff bridge at Remagen in March 1945 -- they had 11 misses in 11 shots, the closest falling on shore several thousand meters from the target, and the furthest afield landed 40 kilometers off. Keep in mind that was cutting edge guided missile technology in 1945, and that no rocket then under active development could lift the 5-ton weight of a 1945 atomic warhead. The in-game versions of the V-2 and our "nuclear missile" are complete fantasy.

      That said, I will use all means available to take down AIs with giant fleets of elite cruisers or giant wings of elite bombers and fighters. If you have not had the pleasure of watching 30 AI squadrons disappear in the blink of an eye while they are grounded and refueling -- and when their hit points drop from 20 or 25 per unit to 5 per unit -- you really should try it. One nuclear missile will kill 25+ refueling squadrons, one rocket will destroy 4 or 5. Your mileage may vary.

      My advice to you: nothing obligates you to fight fair against AI opponents. Squish'em like bugs.

      There is no Geneva Convention for AIs. :P

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MontanaBB ().

    • i wholeheartedly agree. There are a number of puzzling mechanics of the game. How about rebellions? When in any war did an army win a battle, stroll into a city, and then decide that they would turn traitor against their country less than 24 hours later? There were rebellions, but the citizenry rebelled when they were LOSING, not winning (i.e. Mussolini).

      Even more dubious is that an army, fresh from victory, would turn traitor and join a country half way round the world!

      USA commander: "Hey guys we beat back the Canadian scourge, then crushed Montreal. BUT, the noncombatant citizens are upset. Lets be Chinese starting at 6pm tomorrow."

      Love the game anyway.
      “I am the flail of god. Had you not created great sins, god would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”


      Genghis Khan
    • Dixie wrote:

      There are a number of puzzling mechanics of the game. How about rebellions? When in any war did an army win a battle, stroll into a city, and then decide that they would turn traitor against their country less than 24 hours later?
      You're not the first forum participant to severely criticize the present rebellion mechanics and outcomes. And, yes, the whole idea of a lightly occupied or ungarrisoned Valencia (Spain) rebelling and joining Sweden, or Bakersfield (California) joining the Philippines, is just a bizarre feature of the game that only some 20-something programmer, with a mandate to create maximum chaos, would believe was an appropriate outcome for a WW2-based war game.

      And, yes, the idea that an elite unit, like a medium tank brigade, with 100% combat effectiveness, would flip and join a rebellion against its parent country is also unrealistic and completely without precedent during the WW2 era. It would make far more sense just to have the entire unit wiped out during the rebellion, rather than keeping it alive, turn traitor and fight its own former comrades.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MontanaBB ().

    • A lot of the games bizarre features can be dealt with, though. It just takes time to go back and deal with them. And that seems to be a big part of the game. Move along slowly. Dangle the carrot. What all of us are craving is more action! Thats why new guys want snipers and land mines and mini subs and coastal guns and transport planes and paratroopers etc etc etc ad nauseum. They are looking to speed it up! They want action (read as fun)! But bytro wants to dangle the carrot. They create supply crates that for some reason ALWAYS land in someone elses country, and it has to be wrested from them, even if you are not at war with them. I have played the game constantly, and I do mean constantly, since the crates started. I havent got even 1 full set of prints yet. im halfway there on EVERYTHING. I think that Bytro would greatly benefit by making the game more enjoyable. I think they could do it by making it move a little quicker, by paying out rewards that were satisfying to the gamers, and working out ALL the glitches and kinks that are frustrating to a strategist. How can we play a strategy game that doesnt play by its own rules? Or can change them at will? (Hey this time my queen is going to move like a knight because you are winning, ok?)

      How many games have you played where more than half the players quit (esp newcomers) in the first couple days? Lost revenue, Bytro. Fix the bugs, speed it up a little, maybe give out blueprints for wins. If the game moved smoothly, I would buy a subscription or whatever no prob. I buy games all the time.
      “I am the flail of god. Had you not created great sins, god would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”


      Genghis Khan
    • Dixie wrote:

      A lot of the games bizarre features can be dealt with, though. It just takes time to go back and deal with them. And that seems to be a big part of the game. Move along slowly. Dangle the carrot. What all of us are craving is more action! Thats why new guys want snipers and land mines and mini subs and coastal guns and transport planes and paratroopers etc etc etc ad nauseum. They are looking to speed it up! They want action (read as fun)! But bytro wants to dangle the carrot. They create supply crates that for some reason ALWAYS land in someone elses country, and it has to be wrested from them, even if you are not at war with them. I have played the game constantly, and I do mean constantly, since the crates started. I havent got even 1 full set of prints yet. im halfway there on EVERYTHING. I think that Bytro would greatly benefit by making the game more enjoyable. I think they could do it by making it move a little quicker, by paying out rewards that were satisfying to the gamers, and working out ALL the glitches and kinks that are frustrating to a strategist. How can we play a strategy game that doesnt play by its own rules? Or can change them at will? (Hey this time my queen is going to move like a knight because you are winning, ok?)

      How many games have you played where more than half the players quit (esp newcomers) in the first couple days? Lost revenue, Bytro. Fix the bugs, speed it up a little, maybe give out blueprints for wins. If the game moved smoothly, I would buy a subscription or whatever no prob. I buy games all the time.
      This ^^^ X2

      And I'm one who understands several different reasons for the wait times. ( Well... most of the wait times...)

      We aren't asking for sound barrier breaking, nuclear stealth bombers and HALO jumping SEALS out of C130s
      We are asking for ......more action.
      We are asking for minor impact units that if used right, can create much more action in the existing game design.
      IE, paratroopers. Transport planes that can only carry infantry or armored cars. small changes that create big action without disrupting or unbalancing the game.

      Speedier units would help do that tremendously.

      I'm actually trying a "test" map right now where the only things I will build are armored cars, tac bombers and rockets.
      I want to see how well I can do with nothing but spewing out the fastest units in the game.

      I know it sounds ridiculous.... But it is ....action!

      Dixie made the point nicely, we're looking for more action.