Technology For Convoys

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    • Technology For Convoys

      Should there be a technology(s) for convoys? 34
      1.  
        Yes! (24) 71%
      2.  
        No! (10) 29%
      Ive been seeing a lot of people talking about troubles with convoys when stopped by a enemy ship. It is grounded to a complete halt when attacked. And is picked off easily. I have experienced this as well. It has led me into thinking of ways we can change the functions of convoys. There should be a technology(s) for convoys. Level 1 convoys can be the same as the ones we use now. Level 2 can have increased speed or maybe an defensive attack against attacking units. With level 3 being an increased amount and such. What do you think? Do you think it could work?
    • I think it's almost a necessity, due to the fact that ships were constantly being upgraded and armed to deal with subs and other ships. So the increased speed and defense bonuses should definitely be integrated, as the current convoys are nothing but a bunch of floating Titanic's waiting to be sunk.
    • I concur. I think a leveled approach makes sense. Levels would improve unimpeded transit speed, transit speed under duress, defense abilities, morality retention/regrowth, and [dis]embark times.

      I mean, I think we all agree that one level 1 sub shouldn't hold up a convoy with 50 units in it.
    • If you want to send convoys to sea without protection that is your choice. Otherwise, I would recommend at a minimum sending them to sea with Destroyers or having a destroyer net in front of them.

      In the real war the Sealift capability at the beginning of the war was almost zero, which is the opposite of COW as that in the game you can launch all your armies to sea without even worrying about them. This would not be possible in real life, the fact that you can invade another country day one with all your armies is not even realistic, so to compensate for that over powered capability - convoys are zero strength, slow and can be intercepted by subs.

      In other words that balances everything out, otherwise there would have to be a Sealift number associated with convoys -- for example you could only have 1 or 2 non-naval units at sea at any given time and then it would grow as time went by.

      That does not even take into account the Beach head issue, the fact that you can invade any sea access province with random armies was also impossible until late in the war. As you needed specialized ships to land troops on a beach.

      I would be all for something like making technology to load armies onto special ships to transport them, then you would have to build your own Sealift capability and this fantasy that Sweden could invade Germany on day one could be put to bed.

      That is all.
    • Life choices!

      I don't agree that things are balanced out - a few subs between france and briton, and you can prevent your opponent from crossing the channel for days, regardless of the size force they send across. That's unrealistic and unbalanced. Even if supporting ships are sent, the entire convoy will stop until the battle is resolved. It's not balanced, to me, for a 30 unit convoy (unprotected) to be completely destroyed by 2 subs over 1.5 days. Yes, it took that long. If the convoy just sailed along merrily taking losses, half the troops would have landed safely. That's why I think this is broken.
    • Seriously, Bill. Again with the attitude. What gives?

      --

      It's the "suggestion/criticism" thread. An opinion that calls a game mechanic "broken" instead of "disliked" has a particularly significant semantic difference. I really have no idea why you're so ornery regarding my language choices.

      --

      I am assuming that you understand that in game development, a mechanic that significantly imbalances the game is a broken mechanic. Like the Black Lotus. I've laid out my claim as to why I think the decision "breaks" the game. You're free to disagree, but my word choice is both intentional and accurate for the claim I'm making and the knowledge domain we're discussing.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by azeroth2b: Butter Ball seems confused. ().

    • This game cant make it fully realistic, but there are some things that can. I'm not saying to have convoys that would make Sweden get to Germany in a day. Throughout the war there have been improvements to ship/convoy designs. Just as we have technology for subs/ships I think we should have some for convoys. Why should transport convoys stay the same as time progresses when in reality it didn't. Maybe slightly increased speed? You would have to research on day 30 or something? Also, most transport convoys had some sort of defense against attackers( most had machine guns, some with anti air). Even when escorted by destroyers and such, usually transport convoys had to fight as well in sea battles in real life. It would make no sense to have them go defenseless towards their destinations even with escorts.
    • So... correct me if I'm wrong.... But you can't actually place a convoy into a naval group, can you?

      All this discussion surrounding how convoys protect themselves with naval ships -- but you can't make them physically the same group.

      So now it's one sub can stop any number of ships from crossing the point in the ocean, rather than just one ship grouping. That just seems like a flaw. :/
    • If I were in a convoy with escorted ships and an enemy ship is coming towards me, that would suck if there was no way to fight as well. Most convoys had basic guns on them to defend against enemy ships. Usually the transports were in the thick of battle along with the rest of the fleet.
    • As far as I can tell azeroth2b and Sir McSquiggles win this one. The only arguments I see from the forum trolls are "you can't have it your way, it's not like that in real life, it would be unfair, it's perfect the way it is." When the reality of it is that Azer and McSquiggles have it right. You should be able to upgrade your convoys to some degree. Nothing drastic, I think hull and motor improvements at a minimum. Just to reflect the fact that everything else can be upgraded. And as far as I can see, any mention or argument of non-corollary technology to the time is null and void. Need I remind everyone: they didn't have nuclear power plants in 1942, nor did they have nuclear submarines.

      Nevertheless, I think such a suggestion holds some weight and should be looked into by the game makers.

      An alternative suggestion might be an easier way to link up convoys with protective details? I don't know.
    • CivilizdWarfare wrote:

      forum trolls
      That won't get you anywhere and Squigs is one of our "trolls".

      CivilizdWarfare wrote:

      The only arguments I see from the forum trolls are "you can't have it your way, it's not like that in real life, it would be unfair, it's perfect the way it is." When the reality of it is that Azer and McSquiggles have it right. You should be able to upgrade your convoys to some degree. Nothing drastic, I think hull and motor improvements at a minimum. Just to reflect the fact that everything else can be upgraded
      Yada yada yada, need I remind you of the Atlantic convoys? Even with your upgraded convoys and their own escorts they still needed aircraft to protect them properly.

      CivilizdWarfare wrote:

      Need I remind everyone: they didn't have nuclear power plants in 1942, nor did they have nuclear submarines.
      Shows how much you know. This game starts in 1932 and goes up to 1965.

      Forum ArmyField Marshall :00000441:

      Mess with the Bill, you get the scorn!

    • I don't see any reason to add this. If you want defense, escort the convoys. Convoy speed will have a minimal effect on the game, and it will just be one more thing we have to research. If you send convoys undefended you deserve them to be grounded to a halt when attacked. If the convoys have the ability to move while being attacked, that will just nerf both the ships designed to defend against naval attacks and forts (because people will be encouraged to attack by sea). These are 2 things that do not need to be nerfed any further.