New upgrades - criticism

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    • New upgrades - criticism

      With all the resource intake upgrades put on units the past couple of times the game was upgraded, it is getting harder to build infrastructure and a army to defend yourself with at the same time, Not to mention having to also spare troops to go on the offensive.

      Too many resources are debticated to just daily upkeep of infrastructure and offensive/ defensive units.

      please consider the in game map resources output when you are upping the intake on units and provinces.

      Just some friendly feed back! :thumbup:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Peachez ().

    • You do know that everyone has the same issue, right?

      In fact, I would like to see economic management becoming even harder. And I dont mean the grain situation on large maps - thats just lazy programming.

      Rather, make it more like the old Bytro game Supremacy, where there are also resources in the red when you start. It forces more trading and a more active stockmarket (which is usually dead after day 10)
    • Well in my own personal opinion, I like playing this game to conquer, fight and even in some cases just sit back and defend... when it's all about the food, oil and economics and you can't go anywhere or do anything your pretty much playing a game of FarmVille/ Monoply LMFAO

      Don't get me wrong, I like those aspects of the game, it makes it more realistic, but I don't want to bend over backwards and wait a week to start building my army. :sleeping:
    • yes, it takes weeks to build an army, these rounds last months, i dont understand why you want to be able to build stuff faster, this is a pick up and put down game you check up on every few hours, theres a reason you can queue so much, also yes economy management is intentionally difficult to add a knowledge cap to reward players that build there infrastructure well, if economy was easier to manage then players would able to spam units without limits
    • Dixie wrote:

      @'miech

      have u tried the 25 player historical map? very scarce resources, and some countries do start in the red.
      In fact I have played quite a few on that map.

      Its mainly grain what the problem is mid to late game (as on all other big maps), but indeed the other resources are hard to find too, especially if you play with a minor.

      I actually won a map with Mongolia or Xingyian, very satisfying.
    • Yeah, I think infrastructure cost too much oil to build, I mean it's the same as a Battleship and Carrier combined, or more then even heavy tanks!


      It doesn't make sense that infrastructure which at the time mostly was railroads would even cost oil at all to build, and there is a shortage of oil late game anyways, so it would be a good idea to at least tone down the oil cost.
    • Last Warrior wrote:

      almoast every upgrade in coreprovince with ressourse has pay out within 12 to 16 days. Also none core within 48 to 64 days. Also we dont need nerfing oil cost of infrastrukture buildings.
      Infrastructure takes over 100 days to pay out.

      In my current game I have 50 core provinces for each 1 province producing oil, and they all cost 5000 oil to fully upgrade infrastructure on. That's a total investment of 250'000 oil and the pay out is 1500 oil per day, so it will take me 167 days to gain back the investment.
    • Peachez wrote:

      Just some friendly feed back! :thumbup:
      "friendly"

      Dixie wrote:

      @'miech

      have u tried the 25 player historical map? very scarce resources, and some countries do start in the red.
      its a fully historical map, well, "historical" by COW standards, but what can you expect? that countries like Tibet can produce more than the USSR?

      Alex_brunius wrote:

      Last Warrior wrote:

      almoast every upgrade in coreprovince with ressourse has pay out within 12 to 16 days. Also none core within 48 to 64 days. Also we dont need nerfing oil cost of infrastrukture buildings.
      Infrastructure takes over 100 days to pay out.
      In my current game I have 50 core provinces for each 1 province producing oil, and they all cost 5000 oil to fully upgrade infrastructure on. That's a total investment of 250'000 oil and the pay out is 1500 oil per day, so it will take me 167 days to gain back the investment.
      Infrastructure pays off in 2/4 days lmao, i was able to stop my -1000 per hour and turn it to positive 1000 per hour with just a couple of infrastructures
      This player may have been reactivated in October 27th 2017
    • King Draza Mihajlovic wrote:

      Infrastructure pays off in 2/4 days lmao, i was able to stop my -1000 per hour and turn it to positive 1000 per hour with just a couple of infrastructures
      So with "couple" I assume that you mean 2 infrastructure since that is the actual meaning of "a couple".

      This means you got +2'000 oil more per hour = +48'000 oil per day.

      The best % increase a single infrastructure can get you is +20%, which means that in order for you to get the result you claim you got the base output of the province improved (before any industry or other buildings are added) must have been 48'000/0.4 = 120'000 oil per day.

      To my knowledge no such map or province exists in this game, or anything even close to it, unless you found some way to cheat.


      I think you should work on being more honest and not lie as blatantly and as much, or you will be called out for it. Especially when using belitteling arguments like laughing at people to try to discredit them.
    • Alex_brunius wrote:

      King Draza Mihajlovic wrote:

      Infrastructure pays off in 2/4 days lmao, i was able to stop my -1000 per hour and turn it to positive 1000 per hour with just a couple of infrastructures
      So with "couple" I assume that you mean 2 infrastructure since that is the actual meaning of "a couple".
      This means you got +2'000 oil more per hour = +48'000 oil per day.

      The best % increase a single infrastructure can get you is +20%, which means that in order for you to get the result you claim you got the base output of the province improved (before any industry or other buildings are added) must have been 48'000/0.4 = 120'000 oil per day.

      To my knowledge no such map or province exists in this game, or anything even close to it, unless you found some way to cheat.


      I think you should work on being more honest and not lie as blatantly and as much, or you will be called out for it. Especially when using belitteling arguments like laughing at people to try to discredit them.
      i made 50+ level 2 and level 3 infrastructures in the spam of 4 days, and i meant food, not oil....
      This player may have been reactivated in October 27th 2017
    • Alex_brunius wrote:

      In my current game I have 50 core provinces for each 1 province producing oil, and they all cost 5000 oil to fully upgrade infrastructure on.
      Alex there is no need to build infrastructure on non-productive provinces. Infrastructure only increases production in that province where it is constructed. So if you have one oil province, a couple of metal provinces, a couple of food provinces and a rare materials province that should be 6 provinces that you need to invest L3 infrastructure in to maximize production. Now Infrastructure does have other uses, such as higher speed roads for units and morale, but that doesn't factor into payback. You may want a nice shiny railroad on every province, but it does not pay the bills.

      So lets deal with One oil province.

      Base rate of production lets say 3000 tons of oil per day.

      A level 1 infrastructure costs you 1000 tons of oil, and takes a day to build. That increases production to +10%

      So on day two you make 3,300 tons of oil. If you stop building here you are going to "pay" for the 1,000 tons of oil used to construct the infrastructure in 3.3 days.


      If on day two you start a Level 2 infrastructure, that takes 2 days. Another 2,000 tons of oil used for that. So far you have spent 3,000 tons and produced 6,300 tons.

      Day three you produce your 3,300 tons of oil.

      Day 4 your L2 infrastructure boost oil production to +30%. So 3,900 tons of oil produced.

      So at this point on day 4 you have invested 3,000 tons of oil into your infrastructure. Without the infrastructure your oil wells would have produced 12,000 tons of oil. With the infrastructure your wells have made 13,500 tons of oil. Complete payback if you stopped with L2 infrastructure would be in the middle of day 6.

      If you continued to make a L3 infrastructure as soon as the L2 was finished it would cost you another 2,000 tons of oil and take 2 days. That would increase production to +50%

      Day 5 production is 3,900 tons

      Day 6 production is 4,500 tons.

      Day 7 production is 4,500 tons. You have achieved payback on the oil production. Without improvement oil production would have held steady at 3,000 per day, making 21,000 tons in total by day 7. The improvements consumed 5,000 tons of oil. With the infrastructure upgrades the oil wells have produced 26,400 tons. So at the end of day 7 you have 400 tons of oil to stick in your pocket, and the following days you have 1,500 tons more each day than you would have had.


      So even with the argument that you have to upgrade other resource provinces too, it does pay off. Lets say that you have to build up 5 other provinces at the same time. That will take 25,000 oil. Divide 25,000 by the 1,500 more you are producing each day and it will take just over 16 days to produce. So by day 23 you can start swimming in oil. I know that seems like forever, but it seems to me that day 20 signals the start of heavier action and needing to replace units lost in combat. Might as well have the resources to rebuild the army when needed.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • VorlonFCW wrote:

      Alex there is no need to build infrastructure on non-productive provinces.

      ...
      So even with the argument that you have to upgrade other resource provinces too, it does pay off. Lets say that you have to build up 5 other provinces at the same time. That will take 25,000 oil. Divide 25,000 by the 1,500 more you are producing each day and it will take just over 16 days to produce. So by day 23 you can start swimming in oil. I know that seems like forever, but it seems to me that day 20 signals the start of heavier action and needing to replace units lost in combat. Might as well have the resources to rebuild the army when needed.

      Now your ignoring half of the bonuses infrastructure provides however, which is increasing the speed of land units.

      In a game with a better logistical model it could also be important to upgrade to be able to sustain larger forces in certain areas.

      Finally from a realism standpoint you would benefit long term from upgrading the infrastructure along key stretches and most of your lands, not only in a few city/resource centers. Hitler is known for having created the autobahn for example, and Russia built the Trans Siberian railroad well before WW2, but how often do you see projects like this get built in the game? I have never seen anyone build a continuous stretch of infrastructure to enable units to move faster over long distances.


      This is where the disconnection is IMO. Infrastructure currently only is worth it to upgrade the top oil producing province(s), and maybe some of the other more valuable resources with top production, not important everywhere like it should be.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Alex_brunius ().

    • The Sycamore trees that Napoleon Bonaparte had planted along roads in France in the early 1800's provided good shade for the German army to invade with in 1940. I am not sure the payback time was in his favor there either.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<