On Suggesting Paratroopers

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    • I was one of those who did request, like many others, paratroops.

      The idea to disolve the transport plane to troops does not cope with reality.

      What we need are independent, dedicated transport planes like in CC that can transport troops, later on some wheels.

      As there are a lot of transport planes in many levels in this regard during war. Some for troops, some larger planes
      also for armor units or armored troops.

      This in mind, the transport boats are not designed properly either. Early in the game, to make the game fun
      and to lock down players to a map, we need to build. It happens a lot, some players, do not build but raid
      other countries, leaving their country undefended. That is not the natural way in a war where no country leaves homeland
      undefended.

      The counter attack is very often to invade the attacking country, and guess what. Out of the blue sky, transport boats
      are created. When You move 12 troops, You can put them all in one boat, or without penalty, You can split them
      to 12 boats to make your opponent even more nervous.

      So this in mind, transport boats should be independent and dedicated units as well, to be created in naval ports.
      Also alike the transport planes mentioned above.

      In regards of paratroops. There are also para-commando troops. Which are commando who use planes.... So You see it is useless to create those para-.... in the capital. So in this regard I suggest we need another building to train para units.

      Para-units can be any troop or commando, that is upgraded in the building to a para unit.

      So this is much more logical as to design a dedicated paratroop, with a plane that disolves like in a magic show.

      Also take into account, para-troops can jump out of the plane in reality, Where they can be attacked by
      airborn units and AA.
    • amonmontu wrote:

      What we need are independent, dedicated transport planes like in CC that can transport troops, later on some wheels.

      As there are a lot of transport planes in many levels in this regard during war. Some for troops, some larger planes
      also for armor units or armored troops.
      While you are not wrong about this, CoW is at the battalion level, meaning 1,000 ish troops at best. Transport planes back in the day did not carry entire battalions of troops, they MAYBE carried a platoon or company, even then that required lots of planning and resources. The exception to that would be the Normandy Landings, and air mobile tanks? Well, those did exist but not in large enough numbers to really do anything, (Soviet An-40, M22 Locust) outside of killing a few tanks before being killed themselves, plus, the tanks had to be stripped of what made them effective, Guns, Armor, etc.

      Plus, you have to have fun over realism sometimes, having a dedicated plane would clog up everything and make too much micromanaging, which isn't that fun. Para-Commandos are a cool idea, but again, an extra unit that would clog things up when you could just add this ability to the commandos as they are now.
      "ANU! CHEEKI BREEKI IV DAMKE!"
    • JCS Darragh wrote:

      amonmontu wrote:

      What we need are independent, dedicated transport planes like in CC that can transport troops, later on some wheels.

      As there are a lot of transport planes in many levels in this regard during war. Some for troops, some larger planes
      also for armor units or armored troops.
      While you are not wrong about this, CoW is at the battalion level, meaning 1,000 ish troops at best. Transport planes back in the day did not carry entire battalions of troops, they MAYBE carried a platoon or company, even then that required lots of planning and resources. The exception to that would be the Normandy Landings, and air mobile tanks? Well, those did exist but not in large enough numbers to really do anything, (Soviet An-40, M22 Locust) outside of killing a few tanks before being killed themselves, plus, the tanks had to be stripped of what made them effective, Guns, Armor, etc.
      Plus, you have to have fun over realism sometimes, having a dedicated plane would clog up everything and make too much micromanaging, which isn't that fun. Para-Commandos are a cool idea, but again, an extra unit that would clog things up when you could just add this ability to the commandos as they are now.
      It is not relevant if CoW is a battalion level game or the technical issues involved. Your arguments are not relevant.
      A battle game reflects reality. Final.

      During WO-II paracommandos were existing units. If this game respects to reflect the battles of WO-II, then there are para-commando's. For the same reason you can cancel all air forces or ships. To reflect the battles, also para-commando are mandatory.

      As said planes do not magically transform to troops as proposed now for the airborn units.

      It is clear the issues on technical and programming level are translated to the game play. But it has to be realistic and logic. I did mention a few things, like rockets who do reveal the troops on the place of impact, planes in the air that convert suddenly to convoy units when they should attack, etc. A handful issues due to programming that do not match reality.

      It is the other way around. You make it happen by programming correctly, not to introduce magic in the game.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by amonmontu ().

    • atreas1 wrote:

      For more information see about Crete.
      It seems that is one of the few airborne operations that actually failed, while Crete did not fail, it was a poorly planned operation. There are countless examples of paratroopers dropping in territory and not taking heavy losses, Normandy, Operation: Just Cause, the Soviet airborne landings in Afghanistan, just to name a few. When you drop the proper supplies and plan the operation and actually give support to paratroopers, they will succeed. You don't drop a parachute unit in by themselves and expect them to accomplish many things without heavy losses. (Unless you are a German general that is)
      "ANU! CHEEKI BREEKI IV DAMKE!"
    • When discussing historical accuracy, it is better to be exact: Crete was perhaps the only case where paratroopers where used to capture an enemy province. From that aspect, it is as close as it gets to the units of the game.

      I wouldn't say a word if paratroopers had in the game the extremely limited role they had in WWII: capture a vital bridge or secure a passage, hoping to hold on till the "real" troops come to free them. I would also not mind if they were extremely weak against armor (as they in fact were - see Operation Market Garden). Not to be forgotten as well is the real fact that the Allies were dropping paratroopers in areas to be liberated, not to be captured, so they didn't have the enemy stance of the local population.

      Still, historical accuracy and gameplay are completely different things. If paratroopers fit well in the game, it is more than fine even though they are nothing close to the reality.
    • atreas1 wrote:

      I would also not mind if they were extremely weak against armor (as they in fact were - see Operation Market Garden).
      Actually, this is a myth (if you're referring to the 1st British Airborne division at Arnhem). In the first two days of the operation, Urqhart's men attacked desperately into the city to capture the bridge; they threw in a total of seven batallions which were all decimated (including the one batallion which actually made it), and they took horrendous losses. In the six days after that, the para's gave up the attack, entrenched at nearby village Oosterbeek, and remained more or less intact until the retreat (though the Poles trying to reinforce them were butchered on the river crossing). They were fighting SS Panzer troops in both phases. So I'd say they were weak in the "attacking" part, rather than in the "fighting armor" part... as I've said many times on this forum, paratroopers occupying large territories are a fiction just like frontline super-commando's are.
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.
    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      In the first two days of the operation, Urqhart's men attacked desperately into the city to capture the bridge; they threw in a total of seven batallions which were all decimated (including the one batallion which actually made it), and they took horrendous losse
      Again, another instance of an airborne operation that was not properly planned or supplied. Did these troops have proper supplies? Were they reinforced with artillery and other supports? A successful paratrooper operation is something like the Normandy jumps, were they were dropped a day or two before the infantry were to begin their assault and the paratroopers jobs were not difficult to accomplish. They had to take towns, destroy enemy artillery and other enemy emplacements and hold out until they were relieved in a few days, then continue with the rest of the infantry. Which is how airborne are supposed to be used, at least in World War II. Making airborne troops weak against armor is laughable, because they did have anti-tank weapons that were utilized to defeat German armor as well.
      "ANU! CHEEKI BREEKI IV DAMKE!"
    • You do realize that the majority of the paradrops on D Day were NOT successfull in completing their objectives right? In most cases they were scattered all over the country side which makes it hard to carry out operations when more than half your personel is missing and never made it to the RV.

      In some cases they were dropped completely in the wrong area or worst directly into enemy fire and were captured or killed immediatly.

      Not to mention that Operation Overlord had to be postponed twice due to adverse weather that would have made the use of Paras impossible.

      In fact the most succesfull units of the airborne element that accomplished most of their objectives were not the paras but the british glider units that managed to insert their people without being detected and in the correct predesignated areas.
    • amonmontu wrote:

      It is not relevant if CoW is a battalion level game or the technical issues involved. Your arguments are not relevant.A battle game reflects reality. Final.
      dude, reality is not the concern here, this is a videogame. there were no nuclear sub, there were no nuclear battleship and sure as hell you cant make para your personal power fantasy tale, facts talk straight and crete was the only mission that wasnt majorly screw up or done with a huge loss. if you wanted to fight any argument with the "realism" meme then you should be more pissed that due to laws imposed by bytro you cant portray japan, italy, romania and gemany or other facist country realistically with flags and head of states.... thats a bit more antihistorical then your power tripping para. stop complaining ||
      You merely adopted the shitposting. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see a proper post until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!
    • Even Crete had major losses (not an accident that Germany never again used them). Despite the fact there was complete air superiority, no serious opposite forces, high morale, and the major fact the target was a SINGLE AIRPORT. After the capture of the airport, fresh troops arrived and captured the island.
    • Spiffolo wrote:

      amonmontu wrote:

      It is not relevant if CoW is a battalion level game or the technical issues involved. Your arguments are not relevant.A battle game reflects reality. Final.
      dude, reality is not the concern here, this is a videogame. there were no nuclear sub, there were no nuclear battleship and sure as hell you cant make para your personal power fantasy tale, facts talk straight and crete was the only mission that wasnt majorly screw up or done with a huge loss. if you wanted to fight any argument with the "realism" meme then you should be more pissed that due to laws imposed by bytro you cant portray japan, italy, romania and gemany or other facist country realistically with flags and head of states.... thats a bit more antihistorical then your power tripping para. stop complaining ||
      The game not end at 1945, continue into the cold war.
    • Marcos Sicilia wrote:

      Spiffolo wrote:

      amonmontu wrote:

      It is not relevant if CoW is a battalion level game or the technical issues involved. Your arguments are not relevant.A battle game reflects reality. Final.
      dude, reality is not the concern here, this is a videogame. there were no nuclear sub, there were no nuclear battleship and sure as hell you cant make para your personal power fantasy tale, facts talk straight and crete was the only mission that wasnt majorly screw up or done with a huge loss. if you wanted to fight any argument with the "realism" meme then you should be more pissed that due to laws imposed by bytro you cant portray japan, italy, romania and gemany or other facist country realistically with flags and head of states.... thats a bit more antihistorical then your power tripping para. stop complaining ||
      The game not end at 1945, continue into the cold war.
      then rocket launcher and nuclear train should be in the game too. with maybe also the elector cannon studied by the russian :rolleyes:
      You merely adopted the shitposting. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see a proper post until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!
    • when you reach level 100 the wonder weapon tab opens up for you, so you can build "The Bell", the super tiger tank, clockwork soldiers, powered assault armor, laser weapons, stealth fighter-bombers, plasma cannons, quantum displacement devices (as per the philadelphia experiment), and force fields.
    • Spiffolo wrote:

      Marcos Sicilia wrote:

      Spiffolo wrote:

      amonmontu wrote:

      It is not relevant if CoW is a battalion level game or the technical issues involved. Your arguments are not relevant.A battle game reflects reality. Final.
      dude, reality is not the concern here, this is a videogame. there were no nuclear sub, there were no nuclear battleship and sure as hell you cant make para your personal power fantasy tale, facts talk straight and crete was the only mission that wasnt majorly screw up or done with a huge loss. if you wanted to fight any argument with the "realism" meme then you should be more pissed that due to laws imposed by bytro you cant portray japan, italy, romania and gemany or other facist country realistically with flags and head of states.... thats a bit more antihistorical then your power tripping para. stop complaining ||
      The game not end at 1945, continue into the cold war.
      then rocket launcher and nuclear train should be in the game too. with maybe also the elector cannon studied by the russian :rolleyes:
      call of war 1942... think about it.