Change back the dog fight mechanics

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    • I am happy that option E was chosen. Agree with Rokossovski on everything.

      Still, if it's supposed to be a success, the following changes should be - or even have to be - released at the same time:
      1.: As already stressed by Roko, patrolling planes may not react on direct air-to-air-attacks.
      2.: As I'm sure we all agree that issue concerning direct air-to-air-attacks must be fixed - attacker must have same chances as defender there.
      3.: If possible, please give refueling planes more hitpoints. Maybe 10. Or maybe their regular amount as if they were in the air (that would also be in line with the graphical display). Mainly to make them less vulnerable against rocket attacks, which we would otherwise see way too often in the future. Furthermore, I guess this would calm down those who are worried that option E might be a nerf for airforce.
      4.: When taking their shot on an enemy aircraft attacking a (ground or sea) target in their patrol circle, planes should use their offense value. Otherwise it would be even more attractive to add bombers that are currently not in use for own offenses to your stacks patrolling as interceptors - which clearly wasn't their purpose in reality.
      5.: Since point 4 would render rocket fighters an extraordinarily strong patrolling interceptor, the patrol functionality should be removed for rocket fighters (and hence for all stacks containing rocket fighters). Alternatively (even better) remove patrol functionality for all aircrafts except interceptors and invent a new recon functionality for naval bombers (which would be analogical to patrol with the difference that it doesn't attack opponents operating in the circle).

      Quite a lot of changes, I know, but then we'd have a beautiful, long-term solution.

      If these changes are not feasible or too much effort, I'd prefer to rollback to old dogfight mechanism, cause this at least did not give an advantage to those players who are able to buzz around underneath the enemy patrol every 14 minutes.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hans A. Pils: [changed last paragraph] ().

    • Hey everyone,

      quick update for everyone, the following behavior is currently on beta:

      * patrolling airplanes only deal damage to countries they are at war with
      * ground & air troops don't do any AoE damage to neutral units or provinces when they are not directly attacking them, which means you won't trigger war with a neutral country if you attack enemies inside their provinces
      * aircrafts patroling over neutral territory don't attack neutral units/provinces and also don't deal AoE damage to them, they only attack enemy troops and only damage them
      * Damage and war is only triggered to the neutral units/buildings when a direct attack command is given on a neutral unit or province.

      We are currently still checking the behavior of rockets, there will be an official announcement 2 weeks before the release of all live games.

      It would be nice if some frontline pioneers could check if everything works as described above and report if it is not the case :) Thanks everyone!
      Sarah / Sasri
      Ex-Community Manager

    • Sasri wrote:

      Hey everyone,

      quick update for everyone, the following behavior is currently on beta:

      * patrolling airplanes only deal damage to countries they are at war with
      * ground & air troops don't do any AoE damage to neutral units or provinces when they are not directly attacking them, which means you won't trigger war with a neutral country if you attack enemies inside their provinces
      * aircrafts patroling over neutral territory don't attack neutral units/provinces and also don't deal AoE damage to them, they only attack enemy troops and only damage them
      * Damage and war is only triggered to the neutral units/buildings when a direct attack command is given on a neutral unit or province.

      We are currently still checking the behavior of rockets, there will be an official announcement 2 weeks before the release of all live games.

      It would be nice if some frontline pioneers could check if everything works as described above and report if it is not the case :) Thanks everyone!
      Will do! Also, as clarification, does point 4 also include patrolling aircraft attacking the neutral country, since you have declared war with them, and therefore are at war with them?

      Also have a question about number 2... What about nuke bombers and rockets? XD

      Either way, I think this behavior will be excellent. Would also make it interesting to have wars in the middle of a neutral country, essentially just throwing units at each other with no chance to conquer territory until you get through all the territory of the NPC. Proxy wars will be a thing.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by NovaTopaz ().

    • Stormbringer50 wrote:

      @Sasri, does this mean that if u do declare war on any nation, and patrol over their troops, mechanics should work as usual, as we are accustomed to them behaving?
      All other mechanics for countries that are at war work as usual.

      No further changes will be made for now, also not those discussed here in the thread beforehand. While option E initially got some support, the discussions that followed made clear that there clearly is no concensus within the community and a whole lot of additional changes would be nessecary. Therefore no change will be made for the time being.

      NovaTopaz wrote:

      Will do! Also, as clarification, does point 4 also include patrolling aircraft attacking the neutral country, since you have declared war with them, and therefore are at war with them?
      Also have a question about number 2... What about nuke bombers and rockets? XD

      Either way, I think this behavior will be excellent. Would also make it interesting to have wars in the middle of a neutral country, essentially just throwing units at each other with no chance to conquer territory until you get through all the territory of the NPC. Proxy wars will be a thing.
      If you declared war then your patroling planes will do damage, if you did not declare war then no damage is done by patroling planes.

      Rockets still trigger war even if not directly attacking the neutral unit/provinces, as they are essentially targeting ground and not units (they are not homing).

    • freezy wrote:

      All other mechanics for countries that are at war work as usual.

      No further changes will be made for now, also not those discussed here in the thread beforehand. While option E initially got some support, the discussions that followed made clear that there clearly is no concensus within the community and a whole lot of additional changes would be nessecary. Therefore no change will be made for the time being.
      Freezy, that's not fair! Most players that support option E didn't write anymore in this thread because you said that option E will come. Now we hear that noting will be changed in future about the dog fight mechanics.


      This will be a killer for all normal active players.

      Would you like to play with your friends in a game where gold is banned?


      Watch for the next season starts in September!

    • freezy wrote:

      If you declared war then your patroling planes will do damage, if you did not declare war then no damage is done by patroling planes.
      Rockets still trigger war even if not directly attacking the neutral unit/provinces, as they are essentially targeting ground and not units (they are not homing).
      I was asking about nuclear weaponry(AKA nuclear bombers and nuclear rockets). Would those also have the same effect, in regards to causing war even if not directly attacking them?

      Also, Xarus is right... You should have said something on that earlier, or just made a new thread..? But yeah.

    • Since nuclear attacks do friendly fire and even destroy your own nearby units, nuke bombers should also destroy the neutral ones and therefore trigger war. Rockets trigger war in general as mentioned before.


      In regards to the airforce we will make further adjustments via regular balancing in future balancing patches, as these don't require any coding.

    • freezy wrote:

      No further changes will be made for now, also not those discussed here in the thread beforehand. While option E initially got some support, the discussions that followed made clear that there clearly is no concensus within the community and a whole lot of additional changes would be nessecary. Therefore no change will be made for the time being.
      OUCH!!!

      Yeah, we thought this thing was settled... and you were going to develop E!

      Since the exploit is out in the open now, we see a LOT of non-fighting planes all around... and players with black circles under their eyes. PLEASE, doing nothing is ALSO doing something, and it is very bad!
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.

    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      No further changes will be made for now, also not those discussed here in the thread beforehand. While option E initially got some support, the discussions that followed made clear that there clearly is no concensus within the community and a whole lot of additional changes would be nessecary. Therefore no change will be made for the time being.
      OUCH!!!
      Yeah, we thought this thing was settled... and you were going to develop E!

      Since the exploit is out in the open now, we see a LOT of non-fighting planes all around... and players with black circles under their eyes. PLEASE, doing nothing is ALSO doing something, and it is very bad!
      Yeah... Doing nothing is not an option... well, it is, but it would really ruin the feel of the game.

      Either way, it was probably a very smart choice from them to hold off a little bit with the decision, as this thread hardly exemplifies the entire community(and also really shows how split the community is by it, as some don't even truly understand the problem, or have an idea on how to fix it). They have been alerted to it, and whenever these new changes come out(or possibly even before that), they could ask for the community's opinion on how to solve this particular problem. Possibly as part of a . It may not be the best, but it will give a larger base of data to get a better consensus of how to approach the problem, with some more veteran player's opinion thrown in for guidance.

    • just make it tick every 15min, regardless if its continuous patrol or not and get done with it, while u change all the mechanics since it seem to require a lot of time.
      Every 15min on patrol it must tick, whether it was 1shot patrol or different patrol (5+5+5 for example), this is the best solution for now i think

    • MarkAchkar wrote:

      just make it tick every 15min
      That would still allow you to move through edge of patrol radius every 15 and sit outside circle for your tic. Just a modification of the old way. In any case, much of this has been presented as a recent behavior, but the ability to kill patrols has been around since the game started. I would hope they take their time to come up with a reasonable solution instead of patching in some ridiculous quick fix.

    • If the patrol ticks, it gets attack and any defending air gets defensive strength. If you leave your planes on patrol and are away for a long time, you can come back to not having an air force. Recently, i successfully used the exploit against opponents who weren't on. I just never let my planes tick so my tacs got an extra edge on each enemy 15 minute tick.
      Multiply that by multiple defensive stacks and his patrolling planes didn't have a chance.
      So, I have changed my mind to it needs a fix even an imperfect one to start with.

    • Lawrence Czl wrote:

      If the patrol ticks, it gets attack and any defending air gets defensive strength. If you leave your planes on patrol and are away for a long time, you can come back to not having an air force. Recently, i successfully used the exploit against opponents who weren't on. I just never let my planes tick so my tacs got an extra edge on each enemy 15 minute tick.
      Multiply that by multiple defensive stacks and his patrolling planes didn't have a chance.
      So, I have changed my mind to it needs a fix even an imperfect one to start with.
      Why does everyone think this is an exploit?

      Your opponent is welcome to move his planes as well.
      Sincerely, wildL
      EN Mod
      Report a problem

    • wildL SPQR wrote:

      Lawrence Czl wrote:

      If the patrol ticks, it gets attack and any defending air gets defensive strength. If you leave your planes on patrol and are away for a long time, you can come back to not having an air force. Recently, i successfully used the exploit against opponents who weren't on. I just never let my planes tick so my tacs got an extra edge on each enemy 15 minute tick.
      Multiply that by multiple defensive stacks and his patrolling planes didn't have a chance.
      So, I have changed my mind to it needs a fix even an imperfect one to start with.
      Why does everyone think this is an exploit?
      Your opponent is welcome to move his planes as well.
      First if the opponent isn't aware of this, he can go away from keyboard and come back and not have an airforce. All overlapping patrols will get defensive fire at him when he ticks. If you never tick, you can have multiple stacks firing at him every 15 minutes.
      If both sides are on, both sides will try not to tick which leads to a lot of moving planes without any combat and lots of times a loss of sleep for both parties.

    • For example, I have three patrols in his circle of patrol. Every time he ticks, all 3 patrols get defensive fire against whatever patrol of his ticks. Offensive fire would be bad enough.
      Say I have 5 interceptors and 5 tacs in each stack. I would get defensive fire for 3 stacks against his stack each time a stack of his ticks. Even if he starts with 3 equal stacks, each stack that ticks gets hit with defensive fire from enemy stacks within his patrol circle. The enemy just has to minutely move his planes so that they don't tick.

    • Then you should stand against it, more so if you knew perfectly well how it worked.

      This should be a game for relaxation. People go to work, they work hard, they wanna relieve the stress by playing CoW a bit, then back to work. Sure if you're a kid then you will have a lot more time, but even so, there should be homework, outdoor activities...etc, in other words, going outside and have a life.

      This exploit incites hyper activeness, over-competitiveness and addition. Only people who has nothing to do can play and micro for hours and hours. This should be a game where people come to lose out the stress, not lose out the work and sleep for it.