New Naval Unit - Minelayers and Minesweepers

James Hylton · Sep 17th 2015, 4:49am

This is an Idea my brother and I had for adding a more strategic element to Naval warfare in the game. Minelayers would be based upon ships like the British Abdiel-class of WWII. (see Here for details). These ships would possibly have characteristics as follows;

High speeds on par with Destroyers.
Level 2 Destroyers would be a prerequisite for them.
Would require at least a Second-Level Port and Factory to be built.
Cost would be slightly more than that of a destroyer, but less than a Cruiser. Would require some Rare Materials.
Would be vulnerable to Submarines and Aircraft.
Would have minimal weapons and defense against other Naval Units.
Their prime feature would be, as the name suggests, to deploy oceanic minefields, which once deployed would act as stationary units. These units would be undetectable by all units, except for Destroyers. Naval Bombers would not be able to detect them.
Any enemy ship which crosses over the mines will take medium to heavy damage, with some ships taking more damage than others, particularly Transports. Submarines and Battleships would take Medium to Moderate Damage. The damage would be applied in a way similar to the damage dealt by a missile (Ships would not be in combat with the minefield, they would take the damage and keep going).
Minelayers would only be able to deploy as many as three minefields each. After the third one is deployed, they would need to return to a home port to restock.
Minefields could only be removed by either a friendly Surface Naval unit, or by Minesweepers.

This brings me to the second Naval unit we thought of;

Minesweepers would be the counter to Minefields; they would be the only ships able to remove minefields placed by enemy forces.
Level 3 Destroyers and Level 1 Minelayers would be a prerequisite to Minesweepers.
Speeds would be slightly slower than Cruisers.
Would be cheaper than Destroyers.
Their greatest strength would be protecting Convoys.
Would be weaker against surface ships, but strong against Submarines.
Armor Class would be lower than Cruisers but better than Destroyers.

Let me know what you guys think about this. More ideas to follow.

Butter Ball Bill · Sep 17th 2015, 5:05pm

I'm sorry to say we beat you to the punch a couple months ago.

I still like the idea and give it my full support.

James Hylton · Sep 17th 2015, 6:08pm

Dang-nabbit! Well, the next one I'm working on, I DID search the forums for, and only found very BASIC references to it. In fact, I only found one reference to it, and it was by you. So at least, the next one will be discussed in detail for the first time.

That aside, could you give me some ideas and opinions about how I've addressed the potential mechanics for the above-mentioned units? What would you change, and what would you keep?

And while I'm at it, why don't you just give me a list of potential new units that HAS been discussed in the past, so I don't keep beating old drums?

Butter Ball Bill · Sep 17th 2015, 6:31pm

James Hylton wrote:

it was by you

Haha, I think I have discussed nigh on everything in either chats or threads.

James Hylton wrote:

That aside, could you give me some ideas and opinions about how I've addressed the potential mechanics for the above-mentioned units? What would you change, and what would you keep?

It all sounds good. I think when I posted it my idea was very similar.

James Hylton wrote:

And while I'm at it, why don't you just give me a list of potential new units that HAS been discussed in the past, so I don't keep beating old drums?

I'm sure Pablo made one a while ago and he said he would make one very soon.

James Hylton · Sep 17th 2015, 10:08pm

Hope it comes soon; I'm working on our next thread now.

salbalkus · Sep 19th 2015, 12:39pm

I'd never heard this discussed and I think it's not a bad idea.

Butter Ball Bill · Sep 19th 2015, 3:26pm

salbalkus wrote:

I'd never heard this discussed and I think it's not a bad idea.

I mentioned it once or twice in replies.

SaintDamien · Sep 21st 2015, 8:27am

James Hylton wrote:

These units would be undetectable by all units, except for Destroyers. Naval Bombers would not be able to detect them.

This is the only part I do not agree with, there should be a way to find them. So you can send your sweepers.
Both Destroyers and Navel bombers (we used them as Naval scouts anyway) should be able to detect.

But I like the idea.

James Hylton · Sep 21st 2015, 6:04pm

SaintDamien wrote:

James Hylton wrote:

These units would be undetectable by all units, except for Destroyers. Naval Bombers would not be able to detect them.

This is the only part I do not agree with, there should be a way to find them. So you can send your sweepers.Both Destroyers and Navel bombers (we used them as Naval scouts anyway) should be able to detect.

But I like the idea.

The reason for this is simple; Naval bombers couldn't detect naval mines in WW2. Not all ships could either, even with radar and sonar (sonar had to be advanced, too, and it wasn't common then). Many sweepers simply dredged the ocean in front of them, so they technically couldn't detect them either.

SiberianHunter · Sep 23rd 2015, 9:48pm

James Hylton wrote:

Many sweepers simply dredged the ocean in front of them, so they technically couldn't detect them either.

Ehm, Minesweepers are not sweeping 'in front' but dragging equipment behind them.

Most mines where Magnetic or Acoustic activated mines, next to the contact activated mine but those were floating mines and easier to spot and to remove (by dregging a cutter cable behind a shallow ship).

So Mine sweepers where lightweight ships made of wood, and nearly no metal (thus Magnetic responsive) was used.
I can go deeper into this but its to specific..

Even in this day's they are made of non-metalic materials like Fiberglass.
So the Armor class should be extremely low...

But they should be fast, realy fast.
Just sailed with one oldy from the 90's that was capable of +30 knots! :thumbsup:

(made in Sweden, 2 times 3000hp V12 NATO Submarine diesels on a polyester boat)

Butter Ball Bill · Sep 23rd 2015, 9:51pm

That sounds good.

James Hylton · Sep 23rd 2015, 9:55pm

SiberianHunter wrote:

Many sweepers simply dredged the ocean in front of them, so they technically couldn't detect them either.

Ehm, Minesweepers are not sweeping 'in front' but dragging equipment behind them.

Most mines where Magnetic or Acoustic activated mines, next to the contact activated mine but those were floating mines and easier to spot and to remove (by dregging a cutter cable behind a shallow ship).

So Mine sweepers where lightweight ships made of wood, and nearly no metal (thus Magnetic responsive) was used.
I can go deeper into this but its to specific..

Even in this day's they are made of non-metalic materials like Fiberglass.
So the Armor class should be extremely low... But they should be fast, realy fast.
Just sailed with one oldy from the 90's that was capable of +30 knots!
(made in Sweden, 2 times 3000hp V12 NATO Submarine diesels on a polyester boat)

Lol, now I remember why my brother is the history buff in the family. Thank you for correcting me; my brother drilled me on that one too (I'll be hearing about this one for a few weeks from him...).
I will say that the reason for making the minesweepers slower was the idea that they would be moving slower in order to dredge the mines from the water, but perhaps that could be simulated simply by the fact that they would be matching speeds with convoys when they travel with them.

SiberianHunter · Sep 23rd 2015, 10:07pm

Yess while dredging for mines they are realy slow, but the ships themselfs aren't :thumbup:

GreatbigHippo · Sep 24th 2015, 3:17am

I honestly think this idea would add unnecessary complication to the game. Sure, it would be realistic, but I don't think it would be fun.

James Hylton · Sep 24th 2015, 4:15am

GreatbigHippo wrote:

I honestly think this idea would add unnecessary complication to the game. Sure, it would be realistic, but I don't think it would be fun.

That's true, though it would depend on how the devs implemented the idea, if they did. If it is an overly complicated deployment system, then it likely wouldn't be fun. I could see it being amusing to mine your neighbors ocean and watch the fireworks.

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