Transport ships

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  • freezy wrote:

    here were also passenger ships capable of faster speeds, and we even reference those in some of the unit details of the higher transport ship levels. So while it may not have been that common to use many of them, it was technically possible and not a fantasy.
    Please ask your "very knowledgeable" colleague to name a single cargo ship that was capable of 45 kmh. That animal did not exist.

    Comparing a handful of high-speed passenger liners to heavy cargo ships is comparing apples to oranges. And your "very knowledgeable" colleague should know that. A converted passenger liner, such as the RMS Queen Mary, could cross the Atlantic at 25 to 30 knots (46 to 56 kmh), but her ability carry heavy military equipment and other cargo was limited.

    If you're going to have a WW2 game, based on WW2-era tech and tactics, let's use actual WW2-era tech.
  • MontanaBB wrote:

    Here is the reality of 1945 state-of-the-art naval technology:

    Type XXI U-boat: 17 knots (31.5 kmh) -- submerged, faster than surfaced;

    Gearing-class destroyers: 36 knots (67 kmh);

    Juneau-class light cruisers: 32.5 knots (60 kmh);

    Oregon City-class heavy cruisers: 32.5 knots (60 kmh);

    Iowa-class fast battleships: 32.5 knots (60 kmh) -- full load;

    Essex-class fleet aircraft carriers: 32.7 knots (60 kmh);

    Midway-class large fleet carriers: 33 knots (61 kmh).

    Moreover, these are the ships' top speeds, not their typical cruising speeds, which are usually 55 to 65% of their top speeds.
    Let's remember that the US ships were designed for a standardized speed. But yeah...

    Also, the cruising speeds part is wrong on the percentage... 55 to 65% is usually what the speed is on submarines and transports, not larger warships. All of the ones you've mentioned(minus the type XXI) are made to cruise at around 15 knots. Fletcher class cruises at 15 knots(the Gearing is a modified Fletcher, basically. I looked at the Gearing's listed range on wikipedia(looked too short and too fast...) and then went over to the Fletcher's, as they are effectively the same), Essex is the same, Iowa is the same, and probably the others are very similar. Notice how all of them dip below the 50% mark... Usually closer to 45 or 40% on most warships. Some even dip below the 35% mark... Though not usually.
  • MontanaBB wrote:

    As I said above, comparing converted liners/troopships to heavy cargo ships is comparing apples to oranges.

    Restrisiko wrote:

    They where simply rebuilt with level 4 - deck superstructures cut off and done - similar / reverse as with auxiliary aircraft carriers
    On day 32, the war was already many hard years old, and not only apples and oranges, but also a lot of other very different things were mixed and tried out..

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escort_carrier

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  • This is an actual WW2 military transport ship, capable of transporting and landing troops during an amphibious invasion. Please note the presence of heavy cargo cranes and landing craft to transport troops and heavy military equipment, including armor, from the ship to shore in the absence of any shore-based dock facilities. Its maximum speed was 19 knots (35 kmh).
    Files
  • This is the RMS Queen Mary, during her war-time conversion to a troop transport ship. Please note the absence of heavy cargo cranes and landing craft. The Queen Mary was a passenger liner converted to transport large numbers of soldiers from North America to the United Kingdom. She lacked any ability to land troops during an amphibious invasion or otherwise in the absence of shore-based dock facilities.

    Are we clear now?
    Files
  • Restrisiko wrote:

    On day 32, the war was already many hard years old, and not only apples and oranges, but also a lot of other very different things were mixed and tried out..
    @Restrisiko, my friend, you are obfuscating. I could write a dissertation on WW2-era ship conversions, including "jeep" carriers. For the record, escort carriers, either converted from existing cargo ships or new construction built on cargo-ship hulls, were limited by the same hull designs and propulsion systems as the cargo ships from which they were derived ---- typically 17 to 20 knots. Which was fast enough, because their principal purpose was to provide air cover and anti-submarine patrols for convoys which were even slower than than the escort carriers.

    Here's the bottom line: there was no heavy cargo ship or military attack transport that was capable of 45 kmh. It did not exist. So all the might-have-been conjecture here is so much bulls--t tossed around by people who have not done their homework.
  • NovaTopaz wrote:

    Let's remember that the US ships were designed for a standardized speed.
    Yes, all of the new-build major surface combatants of the U.S. Navy were built to at least match the speeds of the Essex-class aircraft carriers. Otherwise, the escorts would have been a drag on the principal capital ships. You will find, however, that U.S. Navy destroyer escorts (and similar ships of the Royal Navy) were designed with slower speeds to match the speeds of the convoys they were designed to escort. You will also find that new-construction U.S. Navy capital ships (battleships, aircraft carriers) were almost always 2 to 3 knots faster than their Royal Navy counterparts. Ditto for the Kriegsmarine's battleships. So the top speeds I presented above were state of the art in 1945-46.
  • MontanaBB wrote:

    @Restrisiko, my friend, you are obfuscating. I could write a dissertation on WW2-era ship conversions, including "jeep" carriers. For the record, escort carriers, either converted from existing cargo ships or new construction built on cargo-ship hulls, were limited by the same hull designs and propulsion systems as the cargo ships from which they were derived ---- typically 17 to 20 knots. Which was fast enough, because their principal purpose was to provide air cover and anti-submarine patrols for convoys which were even slower than than the escort carriers.
    Here's the bottom line: there was no heavy cargo ship or military attack transport that was capable of 45 kmh. It did not exist. So all the might-have-been conjecture here is so much bulls--t tossed around by people who have not done their homework.
    Well, ok for you :thumbup: - but I prefer to play a good game, which therefore dosn't necessarily have to be absolutely realistic.
    My context was, there were fast (passenger)ships and it wouldn't be a problem in that time, to adapt them so (at Lvl 4 here, late in the war, and if they'll really needed then and it is nessesary to research them) that they can transport tanks or other militäry vehicles or war equipment, and that it is for me more then enough approach to reality for this game - the very most other things here in the game aren't and can't be right as in reality, but that's why the game is so good.

    Browser games are an ingenious business idea to lure out money -
    - more or less cleverly camouflaged as a real game sometimes.
    So beware of caltrops, spring-guns and booby traps. :00008185:
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  • I agree that if the speed increase is small between levels, few are likely to research the higher levels. The exception might be on 100 or 50 player maps if you have to travel great distances.
    The research is competing against other things the players can research. So far, in my FP games, I haven't researched above level 1.
    If it doesn't significantly decrease the transport time to get somewhere, why bother.
  • xXCooksterXx wrote:

    Lets say you have a level one destroyer and a level 4 transport ship.
    Does the transport ship add any strength to the group or no?
    not really, just speed :thumbup: ...

    Xarus wrote:


    Browser games are an ingenious business idea to lure out money -
    - more or less cleverly camouflaged as a real game sometimes.
    So beware of caltrops, spring-guns and booby traps. :00008185:
    Warning! Texts above this signature may contain traces of irony! :whistling:
  • Restrisiko wrote:

    xXCooksterXx wrote:

    Lets say you have a level one destroyer and a level 4 transport ship.
    Does the transport ship add any strength to the group or no?
    not really, just speed :thumbup: ...

    Xarus wrote:


    It went up 0.1 in 3 levels... That's "impressive," but I guess speed is the main reason for upgrading is speed.
    Forum Gang Kaiser




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  • Dramos wrote:

    Can it be produced now because I have it already researched and it doesnt show up on any of the unit tabs
    Transports are automatically created when you move land units into sea. They will just have the new level when you do.
    When the enemy is driven back, we have failed. When he is cut off, encircled and dispersed, we have succeeded. - Aleksandr Suvorov.
  • @freezy: Can we get a info text or a symbol to see what level the transport ship are.



    Maybe on position 1) With changing type of ships or at position 2) with they own symbol and the arrows for the level. Better to put the ship to the left and the units that be a part of this convoy light shaded.

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  • It is probably to late now but I think that instead of increasing the speeds so high a different option should be considered. It would be to have the new level 1 stay as they are. Level 2 speed is the same as the L1 but instead embarking and disembarking times reduced by 5% sort of like using a Naval Base. Level 3 speed would be as the new Level 2 speed is. Finally Level 4 the speed would be the same as L3 but once again reduced embarkation and disembarkation time by 15%.

    My proposal
    L1 speed 23 normal load/unload
    L2 speed 23 5% reduction to load/unload times
    L3 speed 30 normal load/unload
    L4 speed 30 15% reduction to load/unload times
  • _Pontus_ wrote:

    MontanaBB wrote:

    Slow down. Think before you act.
    Is always good :)))
    But lets test them first.
    Bytro has the habit of testing in FP for technical bugs only, then moving it into production before anyone can say "boo". Ideas are rarely, if ever, tested for merit of content, or at least, not in sight of us mere mortals.
    When the enemy is driven back, we have failed. When he is cut off, encircled and dispersed, we have succeeded. - Aleksandr Suvorov.
  • So, we have now the Transport Ships for some days tested. I have to say that the speed of the ships is to high!

    The balance is now out of control at sea battle. We have to research 6 different class of warships and some of them have not the speed to reach the transport ship when they spottet.

    Please reduce the speed for Level 2-4! Maybe give the next level transport ships a bonus to embark or a bit more defense against subs but they are to fast.

    Would you like to play with your friends in a game where gold is banned?


    Watch for the next season starts in September!