Paratroopers... Again.

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  • Paratroopers... Again.

    Is this a good idea 26
    1.  
      Yes, this would be nice to have (18) 69%
    2.  
      No, paratroopers shouldn't exist (5) 19%
    3.  
      Undecided/Neutral (3) 12%
    ... Yes, I'm making a new thread. Now, before you go ahead and select the no button on the poll, could you please listen to the suggestion, and hear me out? This is being made, partially because the previous thread has kinda went out(not really...), but also because this specific idea is also quite a bit different, and really needs it's own thread(I think. If it gets taken down, I will respect that and move it over to the other one instead. I have the entire thing copied just in case.).

    After some weird stuff happened on chat about a week ago, late at night where I was, the topic was changed to paratroopers. The role of paratroopers in WWII was very limited, and the only two operations which actually used paratroopers in significant numbers, Operation Market Garden and Operation Normandy(D-day), were either complete failures, or succeeded only because of the lack of defenses in general(air defenses in particular) in France, allowing the successful deployment of airborne into enemy territory, and due to it being backed up by an entire army of regular units at the front lines. But those are usually not the ones everyone remembers them for. It was the ones that deployed only a company of troops at most, that are remembered most. The attack on the heavy water treatment plant at Vemork, Operation Gunnerside, being one of those few. They never held land, or for that matter engaged enemy troops in any manner, but destroyed vital industry needed for the German war effort.

    With that in mind, I'm not going to mention the holding land bit... It's unrealistic at best for most uses of paratroopers, and you aren't deploying an entire regiment or brigade out of wing of transport planes... Besides, it's been covered enough already. However, what about using them for what they are usually used for: sabotage of industry and military installations? Essentially, making them specialized military spies, aiming to destroy large portions of the enemies industry and buildings, rather than do a few other, different, random, and unspecialized tasks, such as gaining intel on enemy armies, prolonging unit production, or lowering the morale of the province.

    The paratroopers would be launched via the espionage tab(mostly because there is nowhere better to put it without making them physical units). Now, it does have some requirements to be used:
    1. You need an airport to launch them from(... Kinda obvious, this one). The higher the level of airport, the larger the raid can be and the more damage it can do all at once. Or, as is more likely to be the case, damage will remain constant across the levels of airport, with higher level airports instead increasing the range you can attack from.
    2. You need to fund the paratroopers. They won't be cheap. They will require supplies, food, some manpower(like 100?), funds, and a small amount of rare materials(probably going to be similar to the Commando, so like 400-600).
    3. You will probably need to research paratroopers first... They will be an extension of Commandos, as that is the role they would fill in.
    4. Select a province for them to drop into, and wait for the chaos.
    Now, what would be the disadvantages and advantages to having these be? They will launch at day change, so the time they come at is predictable, and after some are launched, it takes a day for it to be allowed again(which I think is fair. It should take a while for you to organize a paratrooper sabotage mission, simulated by the day delay between launches of them). And they can easily be shot down by AA guns, and even a militia will do a number on them. Hence, if you have any manufactured units in a province, the chances of a para taking a province is nil, and will severely reduce the damage it does to the buildings in a province. But an undefended province with lots of stuff on it will feel the hurt of the para, reducing a lot of the buildings to a low level(essentially acting like a bunch of rockets in their effect), or destroying the buildings outright if they are low enough level. If the province has no buildings(or very minimal), and no defending units, only THEN can they take a province successfully. And even if that happens, they don't have the strength to keep a province from rebelling from right under them, without backup.

    But this would give something else to do with your large amounts of resources, late in the game, and greatly encourages cheap or quickly produced units to protect your provinces from para spam, and would indirectly make planes more balanced, due to the amount of AA you will need to protect your provinces anyway.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by NovaTopaz ().

  • I think this is a pretty good idea, but many people have brought the same suggestion. And like always, some problems persist, so I'd tweak this a bit.

    NovaTopaz wrote:

    1. You need an airport to launch them from(... Kinda obvious, this one). The higher the level of airport, the larger the raid can be and the more damage it can do all at once. Or, as is more likely to be the case, damage will remain constant across the levels of airport, with higher level airports instead increasing the range you can attack from.

    I agree with this, but if I were to bring this up to other people, I'd make these changes:
    -You don't get the troops automatically there. You have to escort your troops to the airbase from where you will launch a raid. And I'd add a limit to how many troops you can have in one. Like 2 infantry units = one tank unit. I'll explain this soon.
    -Once your troops arrive to the base, there should be some time needed to get the troops IN the planes. Like 30 minutes to embark the plane (not 30 minutes, but something like that). And assuming that, an airbase lvl 1 would take 30 minutes, while level three will lower it to only 10 minutes.

    NovaTopaz wrote:

    1. You need to fund the paratroopers. They won't be cheap. They will require supplies, food, some manpower(like 100?), funds, and a small amount of rare materials(probably going to be similar to the Commando, so like 400-600).

    Yep.

    NovaTopaz wrote:

    You will probably need to research paratroopers first... They will be an extension of Commandos, as that is the role they would fill in.
    Mhmm. I'd also change this a bit as well.
    So you need to research Commandos first, then Paratroopers. I'd have L1 Paratrooper (2 infantry units equivalent) L2 Paratrooper (3 Infantry units equivalent) L3 Paratrooper (5 Infantry Units equivalent). So basically what you said, with a level system.

    NovaTopaz wrote:

    Select a province for them to drop into, and wait for the chaos.
    I'd add a range. Now the range can be influenced by the airbase level or the paratrooper level. Heh.


    Some additional things you need to make sure:
    -HP (preferably lower than a tactical bomber or interceptor)
    -TERRAIN (Only if we don't have my thing, where you need your own troops)
    -PROVINCES (Like seriously someone is going to try to use this to have their troops in the front lines faster. So, to improve upon that, I'd make it so that you can only launch troops from one airbase. And although your paratrooper planes can refuel at other airbases, if you have troops inside that plane/helicopter, you won't be able to do that. Also, launching a raid costs some resources, so players won't use those planes to transport their items)

    Also, I'd like you to tell us about the prerequisites to produce a paratrooper unit. Thanks.
    (sorry for poor grammar)
  • Well, that was the point of making them have to be used in the espionage tab... So they are not physically embodied on the map until they land on the ground. And your infantry unit equalivence is pointless, frankly. It defeats the point of this entire suggestion, IE Para can NOT be used to conquer land without highly specific circumstances that would rarely, if ever, happen. Also makes all your other suggestions in that regard kinda iffy. Having paratroopers as a physical unit that can take land after being dropped from an airplane, has been shot down numerous times by the people who have discussed it in past threads. Hence, why I made this suggestion, because it, A. requires circumstances that are likely to never happen for them, B. they serve a role other than dropping down and taking land, and C. their physical size is very small in comparison to other land units, even things like the armored car.

    Now, they could still be built, but they would not have any special abilities over their counterparts. Also, commandos are what para are when they aren't dropped out of an airplane, and are superior to them in almost every single way, except that they can't be deployed out of an airplane, and don't do nearly as much damage to buildings. Para, if they manage to succeed in taking land, they will have 1/4 to 1/2 the power of commandos, and a smaller hitpoint pool(10HP?), and therefore can not hold the land for any length of time, nor stop the province from rebelling right from under it(it'll reduce the chance, but it can still rebel), without some units to break through the lines to get to them.

    Also, the act of commencing the raid would consume all the resources needed to make it happen, paratroopers, training, airplanes, the works(so could probably include oil... Eh.). And probably would only be allowed in the first 16 hours of the new day(mostly to give people time to actually do it). After that, the launches are 'locked' and you can't add anymore. You can still cancel them, though.

    Obviously, terrain doesn't really matter... And you can't use this to reinforce the frontline much. As said, para is weak unless it is being used to destroy industry. As for pre-req, think the only one would be... Ya know, actually researching them. Given that para operations usually draw resources from other places to make it work, I don't see any need for them to have a pre-req list, minus the airport. But that's my opinion.
  • We do need paratroopers. They were actually around at 1944 (unlike Nuke Rockets), and they've implemented them in Conflict of Nations. We need Airborne here.
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