Which was the best army?

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

  • the topic was interesting before, but now it spoiled - a lot of garbage, trolinga and silly pictures.

    Pablo22510 wrote:

    Sandevot wrote:

    So that this does not was no problem for the German troops.
    They weren't equipped for the winter.
    Yes it is. but do not you think it's strange? Germany has always been a clever enemy, and suddenly such a stupid mistake. The generals did not have a calendar? They had a lot of experience, many of them were veterans of the First World War and have been many times in Russia, during a break between wars. Pretty strange errors.
    There is an interesting fact - the beginning of winter 1941 in German Army document which lists need to supply the loads it was said that the biggest problem of the army in short supply ... horseshoes.

  • Sandevot wrote:

    Yes it is. but do not you think it's strange? Germany has always been a clever enemy, and suddenly such a stupid mistake. The generals did not have a calendar? They had a lot of experience, many of them were veterans of the First World War and have been many times in Russia, during a break between wars. Pretty strange errors.
    There is an interesting fact - the beginning of winter 1941 a German Army document which lists need to supply the loads it was said that the biggest problem of the army in short supply ... horseshoes.
    The generals were against invading Russia in the first place, because they thought it was a war they could not win.

    Personally, I think Germany could have won the war if properly equipped and if it didn't want to exterminate the Slavs. In Kiev, the Germans were received with flowers. A week later, Hermann Göring arrived, and he ordered the extermination of all Jews and Slavs. If the Germans hadn't done that, the Russian population would have supported them, because most of them hated Stalin because of his oppresive rule. However, Hitler (like Napoleon) thought he could reach Moscow in a couple of weeks, take it, and force Russia to surrender. As we all know, that did not happen. The roads were all muddy, and the winter arrived during the Battle of Moscow, which was worse for the Germans than it was for the Russians. I think that if the Germans had been equipped for the winter, if their einsatzgruppen hadn't exterminated the community and if they were lead by a better strategist than Hitler, they could have won.

    As Butter Ball Bill knows, I strongly agree with the theory that says that Germany mainly lost because of Hitler's mistakes.

    As for the horseshoes, asking for a whole Army Group ti be quipped with winter clothes is too much to ask for, especially if your boss is Hitler.
    The past is a foreign country.

  • Pablo, winter clothes and horseshoes are very different. I've never seen a man wearing a horseshoe because it was cold but I have often heard of horses being whipped to death because they had bad/no horseshoes that did not let them get a grip in the mud.

    Forum ArmyField Marshall :00000441:

    Mess with the Bill, you get the scorn!

  • Very few German soldiers on the eastern front had any winter clothes if any besides the decoretive issued wehrmacht coat...they had to spray paint their helmets white as well as their gear...my grandpa had this same issued gear...the boots had no insolation and almost zero souls and the coat was as thin as a mere flannel shirt and made for dress and not protection. :)





    It is because of men like Stalin,&Hitler , that there is a place called Hell.


  • Pablo22510 wrote:

    The generals were against invading Russia in the first place, because they thought it was a war they could not win.
    The generals were against the war, but I do not think that they deliberately sabotaged. At that time, in those circumstances, it was impossible. There are only two choices: they could not do anything, or they did not know what to do.

    Pablo22510 wrote:

    Personally, I think Germany could have won the war if properly equipped
    It can be said about the Soviet army - she could win in 1942, if it had been properly equipped. But there are conflicting versions - remember Vietnam.


    Pablo22510 wrote:

    If the Germans hadn't done that, the Russian population would have supported them, because most of them hated Stalin because of his oppresive rule.
    Here I disagree with you. Kiev is a poor indicator - there was always a lot of scum and corrupt nationalists (as now). But all other peoples and nationalities in Russia and the Russian people themselves would never have betrayed his country. And they loved Stalin. He was a strong and popular leader who sincerely believed in it, and he did not disappoint. Of course, all foreign media and at the time, and now are trying to blacken and turn it into a dictator and a murderer. But in reality it is not. When you arrive in Russia (I invite you) I will give you a lot of evidence - I'll introduce you to the veterans and those who lived in the time of Stalin. They will tell you that they have never lived better than when Putin and Stalin :)



    Pablo22510 wrote:

    As for the horseshoes, asking for a whole Army Group ti be quipped with winter clothes is too much to ask for, especially if your boss is Hitler.
    Delivery of all military supplies to the German army was made horses




    Pz.Korpz wrote:

    Very few German soldiers on the eastern front had any winter clothes if any besides the decoretive issued wehrmacht coat...they had to spray paint their helmets white as well as their gear...my grandpa had this same issued gear...the boots had no insolation and almost zero souls and the coat was as thin as a mere flannel shirt and made for dress and not protection. :)
    If troops occupied the territory to find warm clothes is not a problem - you need to find a wealthy family, shot her and pick up a whole wardrobe.

  • Sandevot wrote:

    Pablo22510 wrote:

    The generals were against invading Russia in the first place, because they thought it was a war they could not win.
    The generals were against the war, but I do not think that they deliberately sabotaged. At that time, in those circumstances, it was impossible. There are only two choices: they could not do anything, or they did not know what to do.

    Pablo22510 wrote:

    Personally, I think Germany could have won the war if properly equipped
    It can be said about the Soviet army - she could win in 1942, if it had been properly equipped. But there are conflicting versions - remember Vietnam.

    Pablo22510 wrote:

    If the Germans hadn't done that, the Russian population would have supported them, because most of them hated Stalin because of his oppresive rule.
    Here I disagree with you. Kiev is a poor indicator - there was always a lot of scum and corrupt nationalists (as now). But all other peoples and nationalities in Russia and the Russian people themselves would never have betrayed his country. And they loved Stalin. He was a strong and popular leader who sincerely believed in it, and he did not disappoint. Of course, all foreign media and at the time, and now are trying to blacken and turn it into a dictator and a murderer. But in reality it is not. When you arrive in Russia (I invite you) I will give you a lot of evidence - I'll introduce you to the veterans and those who lived in the time of Stalin. They will tell you that they have never lived better than when Putin and Stalin :)


    Pablo22510 wrote:

    As for the horseshoes, asking for a whole Army Group ti be quipped with winter clothes is too much to ask for, especially if your boss is Hitler.
    Delivery of all military supplies to the German army was made horses



    Pz.Korpz wrote:

    Very few German soldiers on the eastern front had any winter clothes if any besides the decoretive issued wehrmacht coat...they had to spray paint their helmets white as well as their gear...my grandpa had this same issued gear...the boots had no insolation and almost zero souls and the coat was as thin as a mere flannel shirt and made for dress and not protection. :)
    If troops occupied the territory to find warm clothes is not a problem - you need to find a wealthy family, shot her and pick up a whole wardrobe.

    Sandevot wrote:

    If troops occupied the territory to find warm clothes is not a problem - you need to find a wealthy family, shot her and pick up a whole wardrobe.
    Not sure where you got such at Sandevot, no reports I ever read where German soldiers were dressed in civilian clothes, nor Russian uniforms for that much...Berlin sent limited supply drops due to the poor leadership and those supplies often landed in Russian occupied territories where Germans could not recover them...it was poor leadership that sent divisions to their doom,and Berlin threatened death to any Officier that retreated...





    It is because of men like Stalin,&Hitler , that there is a place called Hell.


  • Pz.Korpz wrote:

    Not sure where you got such at Sandevot, no reports I ever read where German soldiers were dressed in civilian clothes, nor Russian uniforms for that much...Berlin sent limited supply drops due to the poor leadership and those supplies often landed in Russian occupied territories where Germans could not recover them...it was poor leadership that sent divisions to their doom,and Berlin threatened death to any Officier that retreated...
    I'm not saying that they wore civilian clothes. The simple solution - take a uniform several sizes too big, and wear warm clothes under it. Shoes freely allowed to change

  • Pz.Korpz wrote:

    German soldiers were dressed.... Russian uniforms for that much
    Um, have you never heard the boot story? When a Red was killed, Germans would always rush for his boots. They would chop off the feet, take the feet(and boots) to a fire and toast them because the feet were frozen into the boots.

    Forum ArmyField Marshall :00000441:

    Mess with the Bill, you get the scorn!

  • Butter Ball Bill wrote:

    Pz.Korpz wrote:

    German soldiers were dressed.... Russian uniforms for that much
    Um, have you never heard the boot story? When a Red was killed, Germans would always rush for his boots. They would chop off the feet, take the feet(and boots) to a fire and toast them because the feet were frozen into the boots.
    No can't say that I have BBB and I been reading from my library of WW2 books for many years now....but I will not doubt that some boots were swiped from a fallen soldier or 2...all sides were bad about robbing the dead,but wearing their uniforms that would be highly unlikely.





    It is because of men like Stalin,&Hitler , that there is a place called Hell.


  • Sandevot wrote:

    Pz.Korpz wrote:

    Not sure where you got such at Sandevot, no reports I ever read where German soldiers were dressed in civilian clothes, nor Russian uniforms for that much...Berlin sent limited supply drops due to the poor leadership and those supplies often landed in Russian occupied territories where Germans could not recover them...it was poor leadership that sent divisions to their doom,and Berlin threatened death to any Officier that retreated...
    I'm not saying that they wore civilian clothes. The simple solution - take a uniform several sizes too big, and wear warm clothes under it. Shoes freely allowed to change
    Oh ok...sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying...I agree with you on this and BBB as well, when it comes to swiping boots and socks and wearing some extra under their own uniforms...





    It is because of men like Stalin,&Hitler , that there is a place called Hell.


  • Sandevot wrote:

    Here I disagree with you. Kiev is a poor indicator - there was always a lot of scum and corrupt nationalists (as now). But all other peoples and nationalities in Russia and the Russian people themselves would never have betrayed his country. And they loved Stalin. He was a strong and popular leader who sincerely believed in it, and he did not disappoint. Of course, all foreign media and at the time, and now are trying to blacken and turn it into a dictator and a murderer. But in reality it is not. When you arrive in Russia (I invite you) I will give you a lot of evidence - I'll introduce you to the veterans and those who lived in the time of Stalin. They will tell you that they have never lived better than when Putin and Stalin
    I would say negative things about that statement, but I don't want to start a flame war.

  • Iron Guard24 wrote:

    Sandevot wrote:

    Here I disagree with you. Kiev is a poor indicator - there was always a lot of scum and corrupt nationalists (as now). But all other peoples and nationalities in Russia and the Russian people themselves would never have betrayed his country. And they loved Stalin. He was a strong and popular leader who sincerely believed in it, and he did not disappoint. Of course, all foreign media and at the time, and now are trying to blacken and turn it into a dictator and a murderer. But in reality it is not. When you arrive in Russia (I invite you) I will give you a lot of evidence - I'll introduce you to the veterans and those who lived in the time of Stalin. They will tell you that they have never lived better than when Putin and Stalin
    I would say negative things about that statement, but I don't want to start a flame war.
    I have to strongly disagree with you IronGuard ...





    It is because of men like Stalin,&Hitler , that there is a place called Hell.


  • Sandevot wrote:

    I'll introduce you to the veterans and those who lived in the time of Stalin. They will tell you that they have never lived better than when Putin and Stalin
    Maybe, but Stalin is still responsible for the murder of 30 million people. Nearly 3 more times than Hitler. A good example is Katyn. Here Polish Army officials and Polish intellectuals were murdered to stop them opposing a Soviet rule in the country. Stalin kept the economy under control, but his ruthlessness is simply not acceptable. He was a mass murderer. You cannot deny the fact that he killed loads of people, may they rest in peace. And my view of Putin, which is open to discussion, since I'm a Westerner, is that he is a Communist who wants to rebuild the Soviet Union, but the West has stopped him (for now, I might add). I think he is trying to keep you Russians happy by conquering other stuff.

    But remember, Sandy, the only thing the West needs to do is suffer a bit without gas supplies from Russia, and impose massive economic sanctions, and the Russian economy collapses. Russia is only 25 years old in terms of democracy, and I wouldn't like a potential ally like Russia go back into the Soviet Stone Age again.
    The past is a foreign country.