Tactical bombers against other air forces on the ground

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    • One of the things that surprises new players is:

      Rule # 1: Planes on the ground are still planes.
      Unless they are actively refueling, they are still classified as a plane. so you have to attack them with something that will damage planes. So patrolling over them with interceptors will work better than bombers. Bombers defend fairly well against other planes, but don't attack them well.


      Rule #2: Planes on the ground Defend themselves as planes.
      So even though they look helpless, they are still a plane. And when you attack them they will return fire. Consider them armed and dangerous, just like if they were on patrol. So even when you do attack them with interceptors, you will end up with damage to your own planes.

      Rule # 3: If you capture the airbase with a ground unit, the planes will turn into a convoy.
      So that will make them fragile. Planes can't hold ground, so you don't have to defeat the planes first to take the province. You will need to defeat other ground forces there though. Also make sure you don't waste time attacking the planes first with ground units. I spent many hours bombarding a plane group on the ground with artillery and not doing any damage to learn this. I now always race ahead with an armored car or light tank to capture provinces with airbases and or planes on the ground when I can.

      Rule # 4: The only defenseless plane is a refueling plane.
      For the 5 to 15 minutes that a plane is refueling after landing it is actually classed as an infantry unit, same as the convoys, and is extremely fragile. Typical tactics include bombing runs or rocket attacks during the refueling period.


      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

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    • And, not to forget, if a fortification is there the planes on ground receive the appropriate bonus, and in core provinces also the home defense bonus, so it can happen that only 1/10 damage is done to them (like as against attacked ground units).

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    • "Rule # 4: The only defenseless plane is a refueling plane.
      For the time that a plane is refueling after landing it is actually classed as an infantry unit, same as the convoys, and is extremely fragile. Typical tactics include bombing runs or rocket attacks during the refueling period. "
      If planes are on the ground and there are no ground units in the airport province, the planes will not fly. In that situation, they are also defenseless against any attacking ground units.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Lawrence Czl: Changed to time that ().

    • Lawrence Czl wrote:

      For the 5 to 15 minutes that a plane is refueling after landing it . . . is extremely fragile.
      Small quibble: the aircraft refueling period may actually be as long as 30 minutes. Aircraft may operate from 50% completed L1 air bases, but the refueling time is double that of a 100% completed L1 air base.

      I was having an argument with NukeRaider several months ago about the advisability of using ~50% complete L1 air bases. Nuke thought it was a good idea; I thought it was a bad idea for the reason stated above. It doubles the time of your aircraft units' maximum vulnerability. I've never lost an air wing on the ground to rockets, nukes or massed enemy air attack . . . at least not yet. Knock on Charlie McCarthy's head.
    • MontanaBB wrote:

      Lawrence Czl wrote:

      For the 5 to 15 minutes that a plane is refueling after landing it . . . is extremely fragile.
      Small quibble: the aircraft refueling period may actually be as long as 30 minutes. Aircraft may operate from 50% completed L1 air bases, but the refueling time is double that of a 100% completed L1 air base.
      I was having an argument with NukeRaider several months ago about the advisability of using ~50% complete L1 air bases. Nuke thought it was a good idea; I thought it was a bad idea for the reason stated above. It doubles the time of your aircraft units' maximum vulnerability. I've never lost an air wing on the ground to rockets, nukes or massed enemy air attack . . . at least not yet. Knock on Charlie McCarthy's head.
      a 50% completed airbase also runs a high risk of obtaining damage that will ground or "truck" the planes. Imagine the tears if you had planes refueling on a 50% landing strip, and a gold spy busted it to 25% for your enemy to devour your air-force.
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    • Lawrence Czl wrote:

      "Rule # 4: The only defenseless plane is a refueling plane.
      For the time that a plane is refueling after landing it is actually classed as an infantry unit, same as the convoys, and is extremely fragile. Typical tactics include bombing runs or rocket attacks during the refueling period. "
      If planes are on the ground and there are no ground units in the airport province, the planes will not fly. In that situation, they are also defenseless against any attacking ground units.
      False. I attacked on refueling planes (5 bombers+interceptors) with 9 interceptors - all units highest lvl.
      I lost 4 interceptors, enemy without damage... Very realistic. Magical X factor :)
      Air combat is mystic great one - patrolling, attacking, refuelling-that all * 1000 random events .. and there is result :)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Contecanto ().

    • Contecanto wrote:

      False. I attacked on refueling planes (5 bombers+interceptors) with 9 interceptors - all units highest lvl.
      I lost 4 interceptors, enemy without damage... Very realistic. Magical X factor
      Either the enemy planes were already refueled or there were other defending units present on the ground adjoining the air base, or possibly other enemy planes patrolling over the air base. Aircraft units that are in the middle of their 5 to 30-minute refueling cycle have no defensive value and reduced hit points of only 5 per squadron. Absent other circumstances, the result you described is impossible.

      Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, whenever I am in the middle of a full-blown air war with another human player, I always leave at least two 5-squadron wings of fighters patrolling over the home air base of my tactical strike wings, together with several AA units on the ground. When my opponent cleverly follows my strike wings back to their base with his own attacking aircraft, there is a surprise waiting for him. And if he is not watching second by second, he may not even see my patrolling fighters that will destroy 1/3 or more of his attacking bombers. No "Magical X factor" required.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MontanaBB ().

    • Contendanco, do you understand how to tell the difference beetween when a plane is refueling and when it is just parked ?


      Planes just parked. Armed and dangerous:








      Plane that is refueling: Weak and fragile

      When you select it you will see that it shows "refueling for xx:xx " and in the additional info it shows "needs an airfield to start" These things tell you it is refueling. If you don't see these clues, assume it is the armed and dangerous one above.


      When you click the icon in the box you get this popup:


      Here it shows the strength "as a convoy unit" because that is how it is while refueling, and you see the 5 hit points it has while refueling, instead of the full amount otherwise. So you see a refueling plane will not defend itself.



      Now if you attack the planes that are refueling here, you might notice that there are other troops located at that airport. Those troops will also be targeted because they are at the same location, and they WILL defend themselves.


      One antiair unit will have a defense value of 5.0 against planes
      5 infantry level 2 have an air defense of 1.5 each, for a total of 7.5

      So that will damage one plane by 50% or so, before you figure the X-factor in.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • Ufff.... im not a novice :)
      I understand this difference. I see if is refuelling or only park :)

      How beautiful would it be if it really was ....
      For example, now I have patrolled over 1 heavy tank and 1 tank destroyer with 16 bombers (top level). I've lost 2 planes and enemy units have 89%.
      According to you, these units together 1.2 1.8 + air defense, 3 together ... to destroy 1 bomber (25HP) would need an estimated 7-8 cycles .. To destroy 2 circa 15. It is not it? X factor is here and is very important. That is all.

      Edit : Is there fortification high level, but i mean, that only garrison takes less damage, no gives .

      Its only game, i know :)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Contecanto ().

    • Contecanto wrote:

      For example, now I have patrolled over 1 heavy tank and 1 tank destroyer with 16 bombers (top level). I've lost 2 planes and enemy units have 89%.
      According to you, these units together 1.2 1.8 + air defense, 3 together ... to destroy 1 bomber (25HP) would need an estimated 7-8 cycles .. To destroy 2 circa 15. It is not it? X factor is here and is very important.

      Yes, that math works out right.


      Contecanto wrote:

      there fortification high level, but i mean, that only garrison takes less damage, no gives .
      True. The fort protects the units inside, but should not make them stronger.

      With the homeland defense there is a 15% increase to strength as well as 15% "fort defense" deal even when not in a fort. Still 15% better than zero should still be zero.







      I will bet there was something you didn't see.


      Favorite tactic of mine when enemy planes are on patrol is to be far enough away that they don't notice the miniscule overlap, but that is all it takes.



      And if you are patrolling over my land and units I know when your patrol timer will go off. If I am really sneaky I can move to overlap for just a minute when the timer goes, and then move away again so you don't see.


      If you are directly attacking my land units I do the same where I just barely cover my units with my patrol to protect them. That is all it takes. If you are intent on your attack you might not see me lurking in the shadows waiting for you, and you will wonder why you are losing so much health.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<