"Don't sum" troops option

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    • "Don't sum" troops option

      Game does sum up troops, when they are in same province automatically, without our consent, let it me, it's useful, but sometimes we don't want it to happen and as commanders of troops we should have a right to use option of "don't sum"

      I would use this option often for sure! :thumbsup:

      If there is 'split' option, there should be 'don't sum' option too, to click on/off
    • Simply that it doesn't waste Your time and piss You of when units merge, when You don't want them to do so. And You lose more troops when they are merged.

      It's time saving and more convinient.

      For example sending various troops to fight in a city. And during fight and after fight there are merged: You lost more (sometimes more, sometimes not, it depends on situation) of them, and to send them again as different troops You need to split them back, so You waste time doing so.

      I prefer to be able to decide if I want troops to merge or not
    • Quite simple. If you don't want them to merge give them different end points.

      Units on March orders to a point on the far side of a city will attack units in the city but maintain their stack separate from a stack sent to the city

      It takes less time to give them proper orders than to have another button to use.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • VorlonFCW wrote:

      Quite simple. If you don't want them to merge give them different end points.


      It takes less time to give them proper orders than to have another button to use.
      I don't want to send them at different locations.

      You understand that problem of merging units happens when they are same location? Talking about different locations it's totally different story/topic.

      It's impossible to give troops orders of staying at some place and not merging, that's the point.
    • Have them go to the same place for a battle, and then add target so they stop in a different place after.


      Simple


      I don't know how else to describe it.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • VorlonFCW wrote:

      Have them go to the same place for a battle, and then add target so they stop in a different place after.

      I don't want them to merge during battle.

      I don't want them to be merged after battle.

      Can You understand this?

      Cause Your discussion is like:
      Me - I want cookie
      You - No, You get the broccoli
      Me - No, I don't want the broccoli, I want cookie
      You - Then, get the carrot


      :wallbash
    • Seroslav wrote:

      VorlonFCW wrote:

      Have them go to the same place for a battle, and then add target so they stop in a different place after.
      I don't want them to merge during battle.
      I don't want them to be merged after battle.

      Can You understand this?

      Cause Your discussion is like:
      Me - I want cookie
      You - No, You get the broccoli
      Me - No, I don't want the broccoli, I want cookie
      You - Then, get the carrot


      :wallbash

      This game is not a simulation nor an action game, but a simple board game where the game pieces (units) where always placed on the selected playing fields (waypoints) one above the other.
      That is the basic principle and also the challenge of this game.

      As Vorlon already explained, in the case of close combat this can be avoided by splitting units and give them different end-targets (waypoints) outside the merge point.

      But that only works with attacking units (and logically it may only work with them), because each attacking unit / army then has its own attack though, but simultaneously always also receives it's own separate defensive fire from the attacked enemy unit / army at the merge point.
      And of course this option has to be actively managed by the player.

      If one were instead able to split and set up also standing (defending) game pieces side by side on the same playing field (waypoint), then an attacking unit / army could attack only one defender at that playing field (waypoint) but would receive defensive fire from all defenders there - so we would then have the same problem on the ground (or at sea), which currently exists similar with the planes - unless, you would set up the entire game / game mechanics new .. :nothatway:

      Browser games are an ingenious business idea to lure out money ..
      ..... >> more or less cleverly camouflaged as a real game <<
      .... .. so beware of caltrops, spring-guns and booby traps. :00008185:
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    • When defending also it's possible to use this 'around way' of making part of troops go to some waypoint, so both units do defend separately, but it's possible only after battle starts = You need to be online in that moment.

      With offensive sit You don't have to be online, cause You may order different travel ways for them through attacking point.

      Only difference would be to enable defensive troops stay separately in this point, when player uses such option of "don't sum".

      It's problem also with planes. I want to send stack in separate groups for lower quantity of loses (however % loses are bigger), so I can send them from 1 airport, one after another, but when I will be away from game and they come back to airport, they will attack as one group again ||

      And it's common thing when using big stacks of planes...
    • Seroslav wrote:

      When defending also it's possible to use this 'around way' of making part of troops go to some waypoint, so both units do defend separately, but it's possible only after battle starts
      In that moment you become also an attacker and then comes in effect this:

      Restrisiko wrote:

      But that only works with attacking units (and logically it may only work with them), because each attacking unit / army then has its own attack though, but simultaneously always also receives it's own separate defensive fire from the attacked enemy unit / army at the merge point.
      And of course this option has to be actively managed by the player.


      Seroslav wrote:

      It's problem also with planes. I want to send stack in separate groups for lower quantity of loses (however % loses are bigger), so I can send them from 1 airport, one after another, but when I will be away from game and they come back to airport, they will attack as one group again ||
      I rarely use direct attacks, but as far as I know will separate squadrons of planes with separate attack orders fly separate attacks and not merge, also against the same target, as long as they either get a new order or are destroyed themself or the target is destroyed and they finally land.

      Browser games are an ingenious business idea to lure out money ..
      ..... >> more or less cleverly camouflaged as a real game <<
      .... .. so beware of caltrops, spring-guns and booby traps. :00008185:
      Warning! Texts above this signature may contain traces of irony! :D

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Restrisiko ().

    • Restrisiko wrote:

      I rarely use direct attacks, but as far as I know will separate squadrons of planes with separate attack orders fly separate attacks and not merge, also against the same target, as long as they either get a new order or are destroyed themself or the target is destroyed and they finally land.
      No. When sent from same airport, after coming back to it from attack, planes automatically merge and often it means: more casaulties
    • While the idea itself is neat, there are the following problems:

      - As Restrisiko mentioned the combat system currently works in the favour of the defender if the defender has multiple large armies standing in the same location. We would need to rewrite the whole combat system to fix this before implementing this feature, as otherwise it would lead to gread imbalance.

      - It would lead to some players abusing this and splitting for example 30 units into single units. The whole map would become totally cluttered with layers and layers of troops and by this visually unplayable. Would need to come up with a solution for that first.
    • freezy wrote:



      - It would lead to some players abusing this and splitting for example 30 units into single units. The whole map would become totally cluttered with layers and layers of troops and by this visually unplayable. Would need to come up with a solution for that first.
      Solution for that is to set a limit of for example, maximum 4 combat groups in one location.

      And it's very realistic, cause when You fight a battle You do divide troops into combat groups for different part of front, so we could have at least option to divide them, as more advanced option of using terrain are not applicable with such a big scale of map.
    • Seroslav wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      - It would lead to some players abusing this and splitting for example 30 units into single units. The whole map would become totally cluttered with layers and layers of troops and by this visually unplayable. Would need to come up with a solution for that first.
      Solution for that is to set a limit of for example, maximum 4 combat groups in one location.
      And it's very realistic, cause when You fight a battle You do divide troops into combat groups for different part of front, so we could have at least option to divide them, as more advanced option of using terrain are not applicable with such a big scale of map.
      Of course, that would be perfectly correct for a simulation, let alone for an action game, but as stated above, CoW is merely a strategic "board game" with a corresponding game mechanism, and it's also a browser game where in most cases the opponents are not online at the same time.
      So you have to set the microscope a bit sharper and take a closer look at what would happen if there was a change ..


      For example, what solution do you suggest for the assumed case that a player with 100 tanks, for example, sends an attack order to an enemy position with as many as 100 tanks, and shortly before the battle begins, the defender divides his 100 tanks into 4 groups of 25 (or 3x 30 and 1x 10, or whatever he wants ..), so that there are standing 4 defending groups side by side on the same waypoint (and remember, all units make 1 shot each hour) ...


      Without completely rewriting / rebuilding the game, I see alternative options:

      1)
      The attacker can attack only one of the four groups, so the 100 attacking tanks will attack only 25 tanks (or 30 or 10 ..), but receives defensive fire from all 100 defending tanks. Worse..
      And which of the 4 groups does he attack?
      Would that randomly chosen by the system? Should it be a matter of luck, despite an concrete attack command entered, what really will be attacked? Worse!
      Or should allways the original group from which the others were split out be attacked? More worse..
      ..optimally the defender could then hold 1 tank in the original group, and on the first shot change this ONE defending tank would be attacked by 100 tanks, while the other 99 defending tanks could fire defensively without being attacked.
      Both variants would bring a total chaotic distortion of the battle conditions, the game would no longer be strategy but a lottery.
      So it whould be a complete nonsense to implement such an option here.

      2)
      The attacker attacks only one group, and receives only from this group defensive fire.
      So, instead of attacking 100 defending tanks, the 100 attacking tanks can focus their firepower on only 25 (or 30, 10, or whatever ..) tanks, and only this 25 (or x..) tanks make defensive fire.
      But which of the 4 groups is attacked and is the only defender of the waypoint?
      Is it allways the original group, or is it chosen randomly?
      Either way, with this solution, allways fewer units would defend than are available for defense - and which defender really wants to have something like that?

      3)
      The attacker attacks all 4 groups and receives defensive fire from all 4 groups.
      That means, all 100 attacking tanks fight against all 100 defending tanks, and all 100 defending tanks fires back.
      ..but stop.., moment, that would be exactly that as it already is: allways all units which will be attacked will defend in the same moment.
      So no reason to change anything.

      Or according to which other option should, in your opinion, the thing work ..?


      PS:
      As already stated, the ability to split attacking armies into individual groups (by entering different endpoints after the combat point) is not the same as splitting standing / defending armies, as each attacking group fights separately and independently.
      For example, if 100 tanks attacking 100 defending tanks, and the attacker splits to 4 groups of 25 units each (or 3x 30 and 1x 10, or whatever he wants ..), then each of this 4 groups separately attacks the 100 defending tanks, and all 100 defending tanks give allways defensive fire against each attacking group.
      You see at first glance, the splitting of attacking troops does not even make sense in every case, but must be considered case by case in terms of unit number and SBDE.
      BUT, even if the attacker can split his units, allways all units which will be attacked will defend in the same moment.

      All listed examples for a better understanding without the inclusion of X-Factor, SBDE, terrain-, fortress- or home-bonus, season, weather, temperature and daytime, and also without consideration of units already destroyed at the first hit, since all that has no influence on the principle.

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      Browser games are an ingenious business idea to lure out money ..
      ..... >> more or less cleverly camouflaged as a real game <<
      .... .. so beware of caltrops, spring-guns and booby traps. :00008185:
      Warning! Texts above this signature may contain traces of irony! :D

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Restrisiko: revised the signature ().

    • Restrisiko wrote:

      1)
      The attacker can attack only one of the four groups, so the 100 attacking tanks will attack only 25 tanks (or 30 or 10 ..), but receives defensive fire from all 100 defending tanks. Worse..
      It already works this way with multiple plane patrols, when attacker attacks only one of them.

      In real life if there are few troops and You attack only one, the rest can send You defensive fire

      Now, in current situation the attackers have advantage, being able to split units, with various traveling routes, going through attacked units.

      And in real life since always, attacking was harder and defending was much easier.

      2) is unrealistic
      3) it's same it is already

      And another way to split attacking troops is to push them on attack defending troops, before they reach province.

      Generally attackers are advantaged against defenders, as they might use split option, as an order done before, while defenders can only after fight started and then they love defending bonus, cause they are in move.

      Attackers should not be advantages. If any side should be advantaged, then those are the defenders, as in real WW II and any other war.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Seroslav ().

    • Seroslav wrote:

      Restrisiko wrote:

      1)
      The attacker can attack only one of the four groups, so the 100 attacking tanks will attack only 25 tanks (or 30 or 10 ..), but receives defensive fire from all 100 defending tanks. Worse..
      It already works this way with multiple plane patrols, when attacker attacks only one of them.
      ...
      That's why I wrote this:

      Restrisiko wrote:

      Seroslav wrote:

      I don't want them to merge during battle.I don't want them to be merged after battle.

      Can You understand this?
      ...
      ...If one were instead able to split and set up also standing (defending) game pieces side by side on the same playing field (waypoint), then an attacking unit / army could attack only one defender at that playing field (waypoint) but would receive defensive fire from all defenders there - so we would then have the same problem on the ground (or at sea), which currently exists similar with the planes ...
      Nobody really wants it that way.

      Browser games are an ingenious business idea to lure out money ..
      ..... >> more or less cleverly camouflaged as a real game <<
      .... .. so beware of caltrops, spring-guns and booby traps. :00008185:
      Warning! Texts above this signature may contain traces of irony! :D
    • And what if enabling for defenders just to split to two?

      I guess this partial advantage would not be that big, it would somehow compensate at least in some part that attackers can do so and same time would put more realism into game.

      When attacking some region, attackers don't know exact positions of defenders between buildings, forests, valleys, trenches. Defenders have better overview of fronts and can fire attackers from multiple sides before he realizes what's actually happening and where are the troops.