Field Hospital

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  • T-3PO wrote:

    I feel like healing units faster just ruins part of the game.

    Agree with this, and want to record my 'No' against this suggestion for the record.

    The game at present has a delicate balance between waging an expansionist war and cautiously building up your economy and industry. A player who sets off on a mad blitz to conquer the world is bound to run into trouble, because he or she will end up using up a lot of his resources to replace the units lost in such an enterprise. The game system as it stands demands that players have to build cautiously, and not attempt to conquer the whole of Europe in a massive attack. Any player who tries to do so will be unable to develop his infrastructure and industry, and will probably lose the game eventually, because a wiser and more cautious opponent will be able to max out his production capacity.

    This is why LT spammers invariably run into trouble, because the amount of Steel needed to replace tank losses makes it very difficult to keep building up infrastructure and industry.

    Adding a magic healing building into the game will be a huge boon for LT spammers, because suddenly they will be able to absorb losses more efficiently, and will be able to sustain a mad blitz more easily. This is unfair to the more cautious types, and also makes the game less realistic.

    There is actually no need to have an increase in the ability of units to heal. The game as it stands allows for healing, and forces players to be more measured in their approach. Besides, there are other techniques to deal with slow healing, such as setting up a rotating system for your divisions (moving fresh divisions to the front, and moving divisions that have taken losses to a rear area to give them some time to heal.

  • MartinB wrote:

    This is unfair to the more cautious types, and also makes the game less realistic.
    Lol this is stupid, a quick turn around of casualties and break downs is what makes a great army. This why the Sherman was so great, it could take hits, get fixed and be back out the next day. The Germans had great trouble with this due to tanks that could not be easily maintained, so they had less units on the front to overwhelm enemy forces.

    This is why things like the "Golden Hour" are so important even in modern warfare to day, which is getting proper medical attention for a wound within the first hour of it happening. This is the most important time you can heal the wound and to have a high rate of this, leads to less serious casualties due to quick medical attention. This all adds up to troops getting back to the frontlines in fighting condition.
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  • Quasi-duck wrote:

    Lol this is stupid, a quick turn around of casualties and break downs is what makes a great army. This why the Sherman was so great, it could take hits, get fixed and be back out the next day. The Germans had great trouble with this due to tanks that could not be easily maintained, so they had less units on the front to overwhelm enemy forces.
    This is why things like the "Golden Hour" are so important even in modern warfare to day, which is getting proper medical attention for a wound within the first hour of it happening. This is the most important time you can heal the wound and to have a high rate of this, leads to less serious casualties due to quick medical attention. This all adds up to troops getting back to the frontlines in fighting condition.
    My point of course is that the noob players like you will want to have a magic healing unit that can heal your units effectively. That is because you actually do not know how to play the game.

    Which is why your idea of 'winning' is to make the game and choose the strongest country. A player like you has to do that because if you had to play against a half-decent player on equal terms you would just be beaten to the ground.

    Instead of complaining about how units in the game do not heal quickly enough for your liking, you just need to 'get good'. Learn how to play the game properly instead of asking for the game system to be changed because you are not good enough to play it and win.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Stormbringer50: edited for content by smod ().

  • Quasi-duck wrote:

    MartinB wrote:

    This is unfair to the more cautious types, and also makes the game less realistic.
    Lol this is stupid, a quick turn around of casualties and break downs is what makes a great army. This why the Sherman was so great, it could take hits, get fixed and be back out the next day. The Germans had great trouble with this due to tanks that could not be easily maintained, so they had less units on the front to overwhelm enemy forces.
    This is why things like the "Golden Hour" are so important even in modern warfare to day, which is getting proper medical attention for a wound within the first hour of it happening. This is the most important time you can heal the wound and to have a high rate of this, leads to less serious casualties due to quick medical attention. This all adds up to troops getting back to the frontlines in fighting condition.
    Except the scale is too large for medical attention to actually mean anything. A hospital does not replace the limbs of 15,000+ soldiers. Typically, if you are wounded in combat, if it is anything more than a minor bullet wound, you are handicapped for life. You try healing a soldier who has had one of his limbs shredded by a grenade. Don’t work too well, huh?

    And a Sherman is different to normal soldiers... Typically the tankers survive the tank getting shot at and they return to the depot to get another tank, while engineers go to work on trying to fix the knocked out Sherman tank. A tank ain’t a human being, if something is broke, you replace it and it works as if the problem never existed to begin with. Not the case with a human being. Which is again why a hopistal or field tent makes absolutely no sense in the scale of this game, because the majority of those healed men will never see service ever again. A depot makes more sense, as it is doing the job that is actually being done when a troop heals condition, it is receiving supplies to bring it back up to fighting strength(including the transfer of fresh blood, IE manpower). But it doesn’t increase the number of supplies that get resupplied to the troops, it streamlines the process so that materials get to where they are supposed to be and do not take a wrong turn. Hence why a depot doesn’t actually increase healing until the proposed level 2, because all the level one is doing is organizational in nature, but it means that you no longer have to contend with RNGesus every time the day change occurs, which I honestly think will be great for the times when a unit is on like 95% health( and maybe heal allied) and you just want your units to be fit for when the next war starts. It would be an optimistic building that does not directly increase healing speed, and it costs a lot of rares and other materials if you do want to do that(and probably also time... Maybe 2 day). Either way, to implement either option would require an overhaul of the condition restore mechanics in this game. So if it ain’t broke, they won’t fix it... At least I don’t think they will.

  • MartinB wrote:

    My point of course is that the noob players like you will want to have a magic healing unit that can heal your units effectively. That is because you actually do not know how to play the game.
    Magic healing unit or a basic need for any military lol.

    NovaTopaz wrote:

    Except the scale is too large for medical attention to actually mean anything.
    We have smaller amounts of troops than countries had in WWII. I have never seen, nor will I ever see, an army of 3 million German troops invade the USSR. They had plenty of hospitals too that were needed to get troops back to the frontlines.

    NovaTopaz wrote:

    And a Sherman is different to normal soldiers... Typically the tankers survive the tank getting shot at and they return to the depot to get another tank, while engineers go to work on trying to fix the knocked out Sherman tank. A tank ain’t a human being, if something is broke, you replace it and it works as if the problem never existed to begin with. Not the case with a human being.
    As per usual for new buildings, the name seems to be causing a lot of hassle. The name honestly does not matter, you all clearly know what the idea is for and are picking at the name which does not matter at all. Focus on what the idea actually is rather than the name, which does not matter and can easily be changed.

    On another note, it was suggested before on another similar thread to this that we have a hospital and a repair depot, but I do not think Bytro would want to pay their coder monkeys over time to make two buildings that do the same thing just for different units.

    NovaTopaz wrote:

    Typically, if you are wounded in combat, if it is anything more than a minor bullet wound, you are handicapped for life.
    Now I do know that it is usually one off cases, but there are people who flew planes in WWII with no legs e.g. Douglas Bader but handicapped people can and do fight. Also hospitals are not just for combat casualties, whether it be trench foot in France, frost bite in Russia or Malaria in the Pacific, hospitals are very important for getting men back to their units.
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  • MartinB wrote:

    My point of course is that the noob players like you will want to have a magic healing unit that can heal your units effectively. That is because you actually do not know how to play the game.
    To be honest I also think there should be a way to heal units faster/reinforce them. Does this also make me a noob player? Let me tell you this, your point is invalid, does not add constructively to the argument and boils down to 'get gud'. Take your brain dead drivel esle where.

    That aside my view on this is a special building where units can be reinforced for a cost, meaning lets say the unit is at 50%, you pay 60% of its cost to repair it back to 100% over time. Im giving out random numbers but it should be some kind of cost formula where its more expensive to heal units than get new ones but is strategically convenient in certain situations to heal your units.

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  • Ellio_98 wrote:

    To be honest I also think there should be a way to heal units faster/reinforce them. Does this also make me a noob player?
    Yup. Because if you weren't you would realise that there is a perfectly good way to heal and reinforce your units, and would not need to post brain-dead drivel about how you need an extra way to do it just because you don't know how to use the current game system.

  • MartinB wrote:

    Yup. Because if you weren't you would realise that there is a perfectly good way to heal and reinforce your units, and would not need to post brain-dead drivel about how you need an extra way to do it just because you don't know how to use the current game system.
    Yes but the current system is quite slow, unless your willing to spend out some gold. Once again good job on first just copying my insult and second adding another point which is invalid and does not constructively add to the argument

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  • Ellio_98 wrote:

    Yes but the current system is quite slow, unless your willing to spend out some gold. Once again good job on first just copying my insult and second adding another point which is invalid and does not constructively add to the argument
    If you do not want to be insulted you should learn some manners and not start off by insulting others. If you do, then do not complain about being insulted in return.

    Yes the system is slow. Good players learn how to compensate for this. They do not need a magic healing building to heal their units for when it would be 'strategically convenient' because they plan ahead strategically. Bad players send their troops to fight in Africa, take damage, then complain about how slowly their units are healing, and demand that the game system be tweaked to compensate for their shortcomings.

    If you are going to launch an invasion and take losses, make sure you do your logistics properly and plan reinforcements ahead of when you need them. I'm invading the Belgian Congo now, and my troops are taking damage, but it's not a problem because I already have eight more units on their way across the Med to reinforce them. I do not invade Africa with a handful of divisions and hope they get the job done.

    If you take the Mussolini approach and just send your troops to Africa without planning ahead for losses and the need for reinforcements, then be prepared to get Mussolini results ;)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Stormbringer50: edited for content ().

  • Ellio_98 wrote:

    Yes but the current system is quite slow, unless your willing to spend out some gold.
    I never spend gold on healing units, by the way. Instead I find creative and imaginative ways to make up for the handicaps that are inherent in the game system.

    And if you are having difficulty figuring out how to overcome this problem, then that is what this forum is for. Not for crying and demanding that the game system be changed because you find it too challenging, but for having a civilised conversation with other players about how to overcome this particular hurdle. Believe me, it is not a big problem, most of us have learned how to deal with it effectively.

  • MartinB wrote:

    If you do not want to be insulted you should learn some manners and not start off by insulting others. If you do, then do not bitch about being insulted in return.
    Yes the system is slow. Good players learn how to compensate for this. They do not need a magic healing building to heal their units for when it would be 'strategically convenient' because they plan ahead strategically. Bad players send their troops to fight in Africa, take damage, then complain about how slowly their units are healing, and demand that the game system be tweaked to compensate for their shortcomings.

    If you are going to launch an invasion and take losses, make sure you do your logistics properly and plan reinforcements ahead of when you need them. I'm invading the Belgian Congo now, and my troops are taking damage, but it's not a problem because I already have eight more units on their way across the Med to reinforce them. I do not invade Africa with a handful of divisions and hope they get the job done.

    If you take the Mussolini approach and just send your troops to Africa without planning ahead for losses and the need for reinforcements, then be prepared to get Mussolini results ;)
    While I understand your point and even agree that if you plan well you take less losses, this is still invalid to my point. My point is that in combat of any kind you take damage, and as such you may want to heal the unit because it takes too long for fresh troops to arrive/ is inconvenient to wait the long time for natural healing. Im not aksing for a quick fix, rather kind of like rebuilding the unit. Much like repairing buildings its cost and time will depend on the damage taken, and to make it balanced it will be overall more costly to reinforce units at a special building than build fresh units.

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  • Of course the current healing system is relative slow (but matching to the rest of the game), and it must be so slow as it is, because we want to play a strategic game and not a quick-click-action-run'n'jump-shooter ..

    .. imagine .. more and faster healing.. - after that it needs only more the often wanted disbanding of units and the abolition of production limitation in non-core provinces - ..and latest then strategy is definitely dead and the quickest finger wins ..

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  • Restrisiko wrote:

    Of course the current healing system is relative slow (but matching to the rest of the game), and it must be so slow as it is, because we want to play a strategic game and not a quick-click-action-run'n'jump-shooter ..

    .. imagine .. more and faster healing.. - after that it needs only more the often wanted disbanding of units and the abolition of production limitation in non-core provinces - ..and latest then strategy is definitely dead and the quickest finger wins ..
    Well its already got to the point where the person who is able to spend a long time mirco-managing their units over the day wins. I agree that quick heals would be bad but im talking about rebuilding the unit over a a day or two. Instead of weeks for natural heals. Also I feel like we forget that gold insta-heals

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  • I could imagine a unit that heals your troops in the province x1.5, then x2, then x2.5, this "increase" being multiplied by province morale (so if the morale is 50%, you get x1,25, then x1,5, then x2).

    This would mean that you would still not be able to just heal the troops as you want, and you would need to bring the troops to the rear (where presumably your province morale is better), which takes time. Then wait for them to heal, which takes time. Then bring back to the front, which takes time. This would give more strategic options : "do I carry on with wounded units, or do I pull back and heal, but then my opponent as well can reorganize."

    And it shouldn't work for planes :)

  • Ellio_98 wrote:

    While I understand your point and even agree that if you plan well you take less losses, this is still invalid to my point. My point is that in combat of any kind you take damage, and as such you may want to heal the unit because it takes too long for fresh troops to arrive/ is inconvenient to wait the long time for natural healing.
    This then is the nub of the problem. The reason it takes too long for your fresh troops to arrive is not because there is anything wrong with the game system as it stands. In fact, I think that the game system as it stands is excellent (Brownie points expected, developers...) because it provides an excellent simulation of the real problems encountered during the war.

    Have you watched the movie A Bridge Too Far? In the opening scenes, there is a sequence in which von Runstedt and Model are discussing the strategic situation on the Western Front, and von Runstedt (played by Wolfgang Preiss, one of my favourite character actors) says "Bittrich's panzer troops need to rest and recover if they are going to stop Patton when he attacks". The point is simple, those panzer divisions had seen a lot of wear and tear, and needed time to rest and heal up if they were going to be in a condition to fight Patton. This is what the game system simulates, and I use this as a guide to how I play the game. So when my armoured divisions are on yellow after taking losses during an offensive, I pull them back to a rear area and give them the time they need to rest and recover, before I send them back to the front. I don't keep pushing them until they turn red.

    Of course, you cannot do this if your play style is the 'quick-click-run-n-jump-shooter' as Restrisiko puts it. You can only do this if you play the game strategically, and as he also points out in his post, this is in fact a strategic game, not a quick-click action game.

    So, if you are fighting on the Western Front, you need to have enough units in reserve to be able to rotate your front-line units so that they can be pulled back to a rear area to recover. And if you are invading Africa (as I am) you already need to have those replacement troops on their way to Africa now, not tomorrow when your frontline units have taken damage and are starting to turn orange.

    In other words, you must plan ahead of time, and build the extra units that you will need for the campaigns that you are going to launch in readiness for the campaign. If you launch the campaign, and only start to recruit replacement units after you have taken losses, then that is when you have a problem.

    As I said, if your strategic approach is the Mussolini style approach of launching the invasion and then running into problems because those pesky Greeks actually fight back, your strategic results will mirror his. If instead you adopt the strategic approach of the German General Staff, then you will not have a problem with your replacement troops taking too long to get to the front, because you will already have a strategic reserve in place for your campaign.

  • Restrisiko wrote:

    Of course the current healing system is relative slow (but matching to the rest of the game), and it must be so slow as it is, because we want to play a strategic game and not a quick-click-action-run'n'jump-shooter ..

    .. imagine .. more and faster healing.. - after that it needs only more the often wanted disbanding of units and the abolition of production limitation in non-core provinces - ..and latest then strategy is definitely dead and the quickest finger wins ..
    This exactly this :beer:

    In a quick-click-run-n-jump shooter, the quickest finger wins. In this game, the quickest brain does.

  • Ellio_98 wrote:

    Well its already got to the point where the person who is able to spend a long time mirco-managing their units over the day wins.
    That's absolute right - but will not be it in every case? ;)

    Ellio_98 wrote:

    Also I feel like we forget, that gold insta-heals.
    As well not to forget the most importend reason why it's may be so since it's a way to earn money in a browser game.
    So we not forgotten the Gold here but left it out because it's elsewhere also omnipresent.

    Ellio_98 wrote:

    I agree that quick heals would be bad but im talking about rebuilding the unit over a a day or two. Instead of weeks for natural heals.
    .. if someone have to have it fast, then he just can put to strongly battered units (regiments, 1 CoW unit already consists of many individual units) together with some fresh, new or from the reserve, so that the regiments fill up evenly so they can continue fighting ..
    And if he can not do so, his karma is to loose .. :00008359:
    That's why I wrote:

    Restrisiko wrote:

    Better strategy needs lesser regeneration...




    Chimere wrote:

    ...

    This would mean that you would still not be able to just heal the troops as you want, and you would need to bring the troops to the rear (where presumably your province morale is better), which takes time. Then wait for them to heal, which takes time. Then bring back to the front, which takes time. This would give more strategic options : "do I carry on with wounded units, or do I pull back and heal, but then my opponent as well can reorganize."

    ...
    Sounds great, but then the current system would have to be turned off - healing would be more time-consuming and strategically demanding than it is now - I personally think that would be good .. 8)
    .. but I think also it would be too much micro management in the long run .. - .. and most of the inexperienced players would then probably be without deployable troops after a short time and would leave CoW ..

    So, best way of all >> leave the optimal and automatic system as it is. :thumbup:

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  • MartinB wrote:

    Have you watched the movie A Bridge Too Far? In the opening scenes, there is a sequence in which von Runstedt and Model are discussing the strategic situation on the Western Front, and von Runstedt (played by Wolfgang Preiss, one of my favourite character actors) says "Bittrich's panzer troops need to rest and recover if they are going to stop Patton when he attacks". The point is simple, those panzer divisions had seen a lot of wear and tear, and needed time to rest and heal up if they were going to be in a condition to fight Patton. This is what the game system simulates, and I use this as a guide to how I play the game. So when my armoured divisions are on yellow after taking losses during an offensive, I pull them back to a rear area and give them the time they need to rest and recover, before I send them back to the front. I don't keep pushing them until they turn red.
    Why do you base your strategy off of what you heard in a movie lol.

    MartinB wrote:

    Of course, you cannot do this if your play style is the 'quick-click-run-n-jump-shooter' as Restrisiko puts it. You can only do this if you play the game strategically, and as he also points out in his post, this is in fact a strategic game, not a quick-click action game.

    So, if you are fighting on the Western Front, you need to have enough units in reserve to be able to rotate your front-line units so that they can be pulled back to a rear area to recover. And if you are invading Africa (as I am) you already need to have those replacement troops on their way to Africa now, not tomorrow when your frontline units have taken damage and are starting to turn orange.

    In other words, you must plan ahead of time, and build the extra units that you will need for the campaigns that you are going to launch in readiness for the campaign. If you launch the campaign, and only start to recruit replacement units after you have taken losses, then that is when you have a problem.
    Do you think we're stupid? As we've said already we know how to heal units. We just want to be able to do it faster. You know one of the most important things that helped in WWII to get more troops on the front was penicillin, because it helped hospitals so much. Good medicine is always very important on the battlefield.
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