Pinned Air Battle

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    • I read the pinned post above, but I'm still a bit confused on air combat. To make it real, I'm in a battle now with a guy who has a large patrol (11 fighters, 26 fighter/bombers). Is that so stacked that it will under perform? Do I just need to get a bunch of fighters and attack it, or do I keep my stacks smaller(around 5) and hit him that way? I'm just trying to figure out how to best attack him. Any thoughts?
    • First rule:

      If he has 37 planes, You will need just as many planes. There is no way to kill 37 planes with just 10 of your own.

      Second rule:
      Follow the rules of SBDE. The best unit combination is 5 of each plane. 5 interceptors and 5 tactical bombers make a good group. So for a 37 plane group I would want 4 groups of my own in the 5-5 configuration. If I had 5 groups of the 5-5 stacks I would use them all patrolled in the one location. As an option you can add 5 of another kind of plane to the group. Rocket fighters would be the best choice for ripping an enemy airforce to shreds, but naval bombers have a giant patrol radius which works well for ground attacks. I think level 4 is when naval bombers start being able to damage ground forces.

      Third rule: NEVER direct attack planes on patrol. You get the defensive damage from the enemy planes, and you can also get hit by their standard patrol tick and take massive losses yourself.

      Fourth rule: Patrol your own air force so as to overlap his.

      Fifth rule, (optional) If you are really into micromanaging you can jiggle your patrol location every 10 minutes so you don't attack him, and simply let him attack you. This can get you better stats against a larger airforce, but it will slow down the process. I prefer to just leave my planes on patrol and get the battle over with.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Senior Game Operator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • with all due respect I think there is a flaw in the response.

      a 5-5 stack is definitely most efficient, however the damage dealt by the 37 plane stack is spread over a small stack of 10. Yes the damage is not as great as if the 37 planes attacked without SBDE reducing it BUT, being spread over 10 still makes it a significant amount whereas the 100% SVDE of the 10 plane stack is spread over a 37 planes.

      To break up your 40 planes into 10 stacks of 10 means that you might do 100% efficient damage 4 times but you take significantly more damage since each stack of the 4 stacks
      is attacked separately and the same amount of defensice damage is then dished out to 4 groups of 10.

      Is the large stack not better? yes it is less efficent at dealing damage but is much more effective at absorbing it whilst the 10 plane stack is 100% efficient at dealing damage but only 25% as effective as absorbing it as a 40 plane stack.

      Maybe I got my theory wrong but hope to hear from u learned colleagies
    • One group of 40 planes will be massacred by 4 groups of 10; BUT that difference is made on the DEFENSE.

      On DEFENSE, the point is: stack of 40 with very bad SBDE attacks 4x ideal SBDE. Damage is spread over 40 planes on both ends, but the bad SBDE on his end makes the attacker take MUCH bigger losses.

      On the offense, all 4 stacks tick and inflict damage, and on ALL FOUR occasions the big group fires back. Damage is about equal on the first round; BUT since the damage to the big group is "absorbed" (his SBDE rises equally to his total strength decreasing) and the 4 groups actually lose strength (SBDE stays ideal but total strength decreases), the rounds after that the big group will gain slight advantage.

      As Vorlon said, the second effect can be negated by avoiding your own ticks (slightly moving patrol circles within 15m) and make sure you only let the enemy tick, not yourself. If both sides use this tactic (it applies to both sides having optimal BDSE too), two enemies can sit all day at the computer moving planes every 15 minutes, and a "battle" with zero casualties on both ends rages. Sadly, the designers know about this serious flaw in game mechanics but have chosen not to adress it.
      Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privilege. - Josef Stalin.
    • Captain Hurricane wrote:

      Is the large stack not better? yes it is less efficent at dealing damage but is much more effective at absorbing it whilst the 10 plane stack is 100% efficient at dealing damage but only 25% as effective as absorbing it as a 40 plane stack.
      Well yes and no. The beauty of this game is that there is no "universal strategy" or one maneuver or unit combination that is completely invulnerable. This game is about reading your enemies and reacting properly to them. The real game is about studying your opponents strategy or moves and countering them.


      And yes a larger stack is better able to absorb damage. So depending on your enemy and tactics being able to absorb damage is something you have to consider. If you are REALLY serious about it make an air wing like this:
      5 interceptors
      5 tactical bombers
      5 naval bombers
      5 strategic bombers
      5 rocket fighters
      And you will have 25 planes to absorb damage and each of them will be 100 percent efficient on attack and defend. Of course not all of them will attack all target types, but they will kill almost anything eventually. The downside is that you have 5 types of planes to research and maintain current research levels of. Also you are limited to the shortest range and slowest speed of those types. Upside is that you get the largest patrol circle available.


      There is also some things that aren't written down. You might need to experiment and learn how things work best for you. This is part of the experience. If everyone used the same units and the same tactics this game would be boring. The variety of tactics is part of what makes it interesting.

      Ok so there are a few stalemates such as K.Rokossovski outlined above when both players have the same knowledge, units, and tactics, and that requires some creativity to deal with.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Senior Game Operator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • Since this is a pinned thread I should add this:



      New players are frequently surprised by this fact:


      PLanes on the ground are still planes, and will defend themselves, EXCEPT during the brief refueling period.




      So for the several minutes that planes are refueling you have a free hit at them with your planes, and you won't take any damage in return.


      After refueling is completed the planes are returned to full strength and are armed and dangerous. Attack with your own planes at your own peril.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Senior Game Operator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • The confusion arises in that the icon for a plane at an airbase depicts a plane at rest.

      I tell players that you don't see tanks in garages nor infantry sleeping in barracks.

      Therefore it is safe to assume that the planes at an airbase can take off to defend the airbase and themselves which is perfectly normal behaviour for war planes.

      It may be useful to portray them as patrolling whenever at their airbase. Yes, this should include attacking ground forces inside a patrol radius. During refuelling a different icon should appear. That would point out to new players that something is different.

      I stated that planes at an airbase should be treated as patrolling as I find it silly to find that they are grounded as soon as a ground attack occurs on that province. This suggests that the airbase IS the centre of the province or city. in addition the attacking ground units have parked a row of tanks on the runway preventing the planes taking off to either defend the province OR flee to another airbase. This isn't very realistic IMHO and needs changing.
    • The planes will only defend if when you first attack there are ground units left to defend the air field. Once the ground units are gone, you can roll in and take the air base and the planes turn into a convoy if they weren't already on patrol and within range of another friendly air base.
      If you want to change air bases, it is important to get the planes refueled and on their way before the ground units hit the base. After the ground units hit the base, your planes are stuck in attack mode and you can't get them out.