Militia and ROW are mostly useless, some ideas to improve

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  • Fun fact about militia. Their level 6, which is not even elite yet has 4 attack versus infantry and 6 defense. With their hill/forrest buff they get 7 on the attack and 10.5 on the defense versing infantry.

    Militia in a forrest is stronger on the defense against infantry than commandos are on the offense against infantry. Yes they have less HP, but surely, they are not useless. Thei boosted attack on the offence in forrests is higher than that of regular infantry. Almost as high as mecha infantry at 7 on the offense. Their max SBDE total of 11 combined with their boosted attack in forests gives them a huge unexpected punch. During an unexpected attack in forrests they can do a LOT of damage. Especially to those that consider them useless.

    You would not be the first one I plow my starting unit militia into to great effect ;)
  • On the other hand, to spend 90 research hours, a good amount of resources in goods/rare/cash, plus manpower and food, to have a unit that you then hope the opponent will be kind enough to face with infantry (if he has tanks it is toast) and has almost non-existent air defense, doesn't seem like a very percentage move, isn't it?

    The biggest advantage of the 75% bonus of Militia is in the hitpoints cover they provide - like cannon fodders. Surely, for that they dont need to me upgraded.
  • Edepedable wrote:

    Fun fact about militia. Their level 6, which is not even elite yet has 4 attack versus infantry and 6 defense. With their hill/forrest buff they get 7 on the attack and 10.5 on the defense versing infantry.

    Militia in a forrest is stronger on the defense against infantry than commandos are on the offense against infantry. Yes they have less HP, but surely, they are not useless. Thei boosted attack on the offence in forrests is higher than that of regular infantry. Almost as high as mecha infantry at 7 on the offense. Their max SBDE total of 11 combined with their boosted attack in forests gives them a huge unexpected punch. During an unexpected attack in forrests they can do a LOT of damage. Especially to those that consider them useless.

    You would not be the first one I plow my starting unit militia into to great effect ;)
    A level 6 mitlitia is already end game so you won't be attacking that unit with infantry but with SP artillery, a stack of 8 takes a militia in the forrest out in two rounds. Or with medium tanks, mechanized infantry and my favorite tactical bombers... So basically they are pretty useless troughout the game because in early game i take them down with light tanks and artillery.

    atreas1 wrote:

    On the other hand, to spend 90 research hours, a good amount of resources in goods/rare/cash, plus manpower and food, to have a unit that you then hope the opponent will be kind enough to face with infantry (if he has tanks it is toast) and has almost non-existent air defense, doesn't seem like a very percentage move, isn't it?

    The biggest advantage of the 75% bonus of Militia is in the hitpoints cover they provide - like cannon fodders. Surely, for that they dont need to me upgraded.
    What he said, militia is pretty useless troughout the game. Only beginners use them by building barracks all over the place and it works as a red flag on more experienced players. Militia should just be deleted from the game and beginners will perform much better in the game and enjoy it more.
    BMfox
    Moderator
    EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh
  • The benefit of all units in this game (as everywhere) is more or less depending on the situations and can not be calculated solely from the pure combat values.

    I myself have built only Militia for the achievements, but even Militia Level 1 can serve a purpose.
    So here a food for thought and discussion material in another direction:

    If one is increasingly dependent on infantry classes, for example due to oil shortages, mix-in some militia will provide greater stability for a stack instead as just stacking infantry, especially against air strikes, even militia Level 1 is enough because it's primarily for to spread the incoming damage.
    As experienced girls know, the more different types of the same armor(e)-class, the better ..

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  • BMfox wrote:

    A level 6 mitlitia is already end game so you won't be attacking that unit with infantry but with SP artillery, a stack of 8 takes a militia in the forrest out in two rounds. Or with medium tanks, mechanized infantry and my favorite tactical bombers... So basically they are pretty useless troughout the game because in early game i take them down with light tanks and artillery.

    atreas1 wrote:

    On the other hand, to spend 90 research hours, a good amount of resources in goods/rare/cash, plus manpower and food, to have a unit that you then hope the opponent will be kind enough to face with infantry (if he has tanks it is toast) and has almost non-existent air defense, doesn't seem like a very percentage move, isn't it?

    The biggest advantage of the 75% bonus of Militia is in the hitpoints cover they provide - like cannon fodders. Surely, for that they dont need to me upgraded.
    What he said, militia is pretty useless troughout the game. Only beginners use them by building barracks all over the place and it works as a red flag on more experienced players. Militia should just be deleted from the game and beginners will perform much better in the game and enjoy it more.
    I'd hardly call availabillity at day 20 end game. Their level up is a lot more rapid then any other unit. Well I dont know of any other unit that can defeat 8 units by itself, why is that suddenly the standard for militia?

    I'm just saying that if you happen to start with a lot of militia instead of infantry that you can make it work. That they are not useless. Yes they have some more disadvantages then most other units but that by no means makes them useless.

    Kanaris wrote:

    No such thing as a useless unit just unimaginative commanders. If you dont like militia dont use it, but not by any means does it make it useless.
    Kanaris said it all.
  • chocol8thunda wrote:

    I use milita tonhild down a province while the moral goes up. Stops revolts. Quciknto build. They're also good to slow incoming attacks so your AA and any long range troop can better more rounds dropped. I also use them as scouts and along strategic roads to slow any attack and alert what's in the stack.

    Theres a use for every piece. I used militia and anti tank and 5☆ fort to hold off a couple waves of attacks. Then added arties and some air.
    Was quite formidable defense and cheap.
    Pro tip = AA are the best unit to improve low province morale.
  • Edepedable wrote:

    Fun fact about militia. Their level 6, which is not even elite yet has 4 attack versus infantry and 6 defense. With their hill/forrest buff they get 7 on the attack and 10.5 on the defense versing infantry.

    Militia in a forrest is stronger on the defense against infantry than commandos are on the offense against infantry. Yes they have less HP, but surely, they are not useless. Thei boosted attack on the offence in forrests is higher than that of regular infantry. Almost as high as mecha infantry at 7 on the offense. Their max SBDE total of 11 combined with their boosted attack in forests gives them a huge unexpected punch. During an unexpected attack in forrests they can do a LOT of damage. Especially to those that consider them useless.

    You would not be the first one I plow my starting unit militia into to great effect ;)
    Pro tip = By the time you take to waste research to max out militia, I will have max bombers and tanks. Militia have some of the lowest AA and tank defense of any unit the game. If you are building forts in random hills/forests, I will just go around them or use arty or planes. Bring your militia into the mountains where they will move even slower and get decimated by commandos. So many noobs think people will just ram a stack of units instead of more efficient tactics.
  • Edepedable wrote:

    BMfox wrote:

    A level 6 mitlitia is already end game so you won't be attacking that unit with infantry but with SP artillery, a stack of 8 takes a militia in the forrest out in two rounds. Or with medium tanks, mechanized infantry and my favorite tactical bombers... So basically they are pretty useless troughout the game because in early game i take them down with light tanks and artillery.

    atreas1 wrote:

    On the other hand, to spend 90 research hours, a good amount of resources in goods/rare/cash, plus manpower and food, to have a unit that you then hope the opponent will be kind enough to face with infantry (if he has tanks it is toast) and has almost non-existent air defense, doesn't seem like a very percentage move, isn't it?

    The biggest advantage of the 75% bonus of Militia is in the hitpoints cover they provide - like cannon fodders. Surely, for that they dont need to me upgraded.
    What he said, militia is pretty useless troughout the game. Only beginners use them by building barracks all over the place and it works as a red flag on more experienced players. Militia should just be deleted from the game and beginners will perform much better in the game and enjoy it more.
    I'd hardly call availabillity at day 20 end game. Their level up is a lot more rapid then any other unit. Well I dont know of any other unit that can defeat 8 units by itself, why is that suddenly the standard for militia?
    I'm just saying that if you happen to start with a lot of militia instead of infantry that you can make it work. That they are not useless. Yes they have some more disadvantages then most other units but that by no means makes them useless.

    Kanaris wrote:

    No such thing as a useless unit just unimaginative commanders. If you dont like militia dont use it, but not by any means does it make it useless.
    Kanaris said it all.
    Pro Tip = You spend the time/research/materials to build 8 max militia and I will do the same and build either 8 bombers, 8 medium tanks or 8 arty (or sp arty). I will even attack you in a forest/hill province. You can even build a level 1 fort if you like. You will lose all 8 militia and I will lose at most 1 bomber and maybe 1-2 tanks and ZERO arty if you just play defensive. You also will be low on food because you over-produced a very weak unit.
  • Kanaris wrote:

    No such thing as a useless unit just unimaginative commanders. If you dont like militia dont use it, but not by any means does it make it useless.
    I think it is funny that all the noobs liked this post. Go ahead and spend research and production on max militia. Build a barracks in every province and waste goods/food doing so. Build so much militia and other units that food production goes negative even after turning off the barracks. Realize you need to kill off tons of militia but being one of the worst offensive units, enemies laugh at you as you send them in slow stacks while they blitz your cores.

    I actually love playing guys like you that do that. Putting a couple militia in hills/forest and think that scares a player with bombers/tanks/mech inf/arty. Believe me, when I see players like you maxing out militia, I know the match is going to be super easy to win. If you kids want to be stubborn about militia, please do so. It makes me laugh.
  • BeerBelly wrote:

    Pro tip = By the time you take to waste research to max out militia, I will have max bombers and tanks. Militia have some of the lowest AA and tank defense of any unit the game. If you are building forts in random hills/forests, I will just go around them or use arty or planes. Bring your militia into the mountains where they will move even slower and get decimated by commandos. So many noobs think people will just ram a stack of units instead of more efficient tactics.
    Right, because I will just sit around and have you defeat my militia with a multitude of units or let you manouver around them. Very good points, never thought of taking into account that I should not just slam tons of militia into all my opponents. How silly am I to research militia right? While in that time you can apparently just maximally upgrade your planes (more than 1 type of plane) AND tanks (more than one type of tank). Very impressive that you manage to upgrade 4 type of units to the max while I only manage to do research on 1 unit. The fastest researchable unit in the game that is. I always wondered why my militia was so extra slow in mountains, yes very smart of you to use commandos there. Never though of that. Great tips sir.

    BeerBelly wrote:

    I think it is funny that all the noobs liked this post. Go ahead and spend research and production on max militia. Build a barracks in every province and waste goods/food doing so. Build so much militia and other units that food production goes negative even after turning off the barracks. Realize you need to kill off tons of militia but being one of the worst offensive units, enemies laugh at you as you send them in slow stacks while they blitz your cores.
    I actually love playing guys like you that do that. Putting a couple militia in hills/forest and think that scares a player with bombers/tanks/mech inf/arty. Believe me, when I see players like you maxing out militia, I know the match is going to be super easy to win. If you kids want to be stubborn about militia, please do so. It makes me laugh.
    I do not know where you got the idea that saying that militia is not entirely useless is the same as building barracks in every province and then train militia there... But, you do understand that these are not the same right?

    Would love @BeerBelly to let us know his in game name so we can check your ranking. Wonder how all us noobs compare to you according to our profiles.

    Once again @Kanaris said it all, but allow me to end on a quote that you will probably understand a lot better.

    Pro tip = no need to give your pro tips.
  • I'm up for the challenge. Anyone that wants to battle me is welcome to. I propose to either come find me in the Players League or have a 2p map versus. No gold format.

    Don't want to disappoint anyone but just to clarify, training militia is not part of my standard strategy. If I even have a standard. I'm just advocating that it is not a useless unit type. Meaning, if you start with a lot of them or your core is in a deep forrest and you generate a lot of manpower that you can use them.
  • The easiest way to show Militia are not worthless (in that context) is to put two arty stacks firing to each other: similar, but I replace 2 infantry with 2 Militia and have the fight in hills.

    * if the stack with the infantry directly attacks it gives for free the advantage of defender.
    * If the stack with the infantry stays there it normally dies due to much less hitpoints.

    But that doesn't give any good reason to UPGRADE Militia, which is much different form USING them when you already have them due to the map. Neither it gives a sufficiently good reason to research them at the start.
  • I do not find Militia useful. I mean like some people do it, but it actually turns out that they are bad defence unit that are really slow and annoying. It takes food and are just defence and can attack, but takes like a turtle speed to the front line, when it is already taken...
    1. Slow and weak
      • Cannot reach attacked area on time
      • Easy to destroy, 3:1 ratio on attacking/defending.
    2. Resource
      1. Takes up your food.
      2. Takes up your man
    3. The person that does not use militia as their main unit will win!
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  • RYANWEN wrote:

    The person that does not use militia as their main unit will win!
    By definition Militia is NOT a front line unit and should NOT be used as such.

    If you take a screwdriver and try to use it as a hammer then you will quickly realize that the screwdriver doesn't work so great.

    Does that make the screwdriver useless? Only to unimaginative people that can only think to hammer everything they see.

    As I said before if you dont like Militia don't use it, but not by any means does it make it useless.
  • Kanaris wrote:

    No such thing as a useless unit just unimaginative commanders. If you dont like militia dont use it, but not by any means does it make it useless.
    Pretty much at the beginning of the thread Kanaris said it all. Really.
    But I can't resist to add some examples and reasons for militia not being useless.

    Though I would never dare to give 'Pro-tips', I do often hand out tips to 'adopted' newbies in a game. These are mere 'amateur-tips' (but then: amateur means lover of ... in this case: of the game). Nevertheless, those who have battled with or against me, probably know I am not entirely stupid, so, just loving the game sometimes beats being a Pro, it seems. That said:

    I do sometimes employ militia for simple reasons:
    - fast produced
    - no steel or oil requirements,
    - cheap in production and maintenance (and cheaper now with the new requirements).
    These characteristics can be very important at times and in more than 1 game, militia saved the day for me.

    Example:
    1. Blocking/alerting:
    Set militia on 'border guard duty' of a border you do not trust entirely, but where you are also not going to be very active. Do this within range of artillery groups w/ AA (another 2 cheap units, requiring no oil and little steel).
    When this border now is attacked, the militia need to be killed to pass, thus waking up your arty-teams, who start shelling the incoming enemy. Militia thus came in handy as an expendable unit, slowing enemy attack (binding troops/fire power and disabling at least 1 attack group for 1hr from doing damage) and alerting the arty-groups to fire (which otherwise won't just start firing bc an enemy enters your province).
    If this buys me a little time - while the arty-groups do some considerable damage to the invaders - the militia was more than worth the limited resources spend.
    2. Thwarting surprise attacks on vital IC's or even my Capital by i.e. speeding enemy LTs or ACs:
    These attacks still need many hours, in which I often was able to complete 1 or more militia in or around the vital city. With 1 salvo per hour and 15 HP to spend, the militia again buys me time to strike back with air force or whatever is available and thwart the surprise attack.

    Of course, these situations do not occur every game, but they do occur. And there are many more examples to think of. Even in regular use in defensive positions.

    Example:
    AA has 10 HP, Arty has 5 HP and AT has 10 HP. All pretty low HP...
    Adding militia adds heaps of cheap HP, taking the heat of the AA/Arty/AT, making these other units much more effective.
    No matter how great the air fleet or wonderful the tanks of the enemy are, a number of these ultra cheap and fast built infantry-class defense groups, will form a formidable bump, taking hours to wipe out, while my other forces return to the hot spot and end the enemy's aspirations.
    Heck, I doubt I need to bring more back than the air force. Multiple militia groups with the right number of AA and AT, will shred any tank and air attack to pieces. No hills needed (but preferred).

    Concerning research levels, well, everybody has research gaps, especially just before day 16 and day 32. These leave plenty of time to do an extra level on your militia.

    So, when in need of:
    - cheap & fast produced HP to slow down enemies;
    - cheap early-warning units on the border;
    - cheap HP to add to defensive groups with AA and AT,
    militia is an option.

    All in all, I do not like militia much, but I consider them far from useless. It is not an all-round unit, but then, no unit except maybe infantry, is. But I do not like infantry either (takes too long to produce, eats too much, costs too much manpower, also in upkeep).

    In short, there are multiple settings in which militia are far from useless, albeit mostly on the defensive side of the game. But, heck, that is what they are intended for after all.

    And ... players still boasting tacs and tanks as the ultra-weapon are so 2018 :)))

    Btw, my forum name is also my in-game name...