for the next balancing update

Hans A. Pils · Apr 27th 2019, 12:13pm

Well, Patriota and Edepedable, I see your point.
The longer the game takes, the less usable become ground units. Finally on day 40, planes get another research level (while AA doesn't) and nuclear rockets become researchable. From then on, you can throw your ground units into the bin when facing a competent human opponent. And I also don't like this game design. It just isn't satisfying and feels strange that end game is for rockets and planes ONLY.

Also iDragons' arguments are only one part of the story: Yes, a tactical bomber costs 4 times as much resources as a AA gun (not counting manpower as a resource now, cause that's abundant in many situations... our other topic^^). But they have twice the HP and that immense mobility advantage. They decide which ground stack they want to attack - never the other way round.
And again yes, a stack with 11 AA guns and a few SPAA is not attackable from the air. But investment for such a big stack is high - you can have only very few of them. Not enough to win a war and a pretty target for rockets.

Bottom line is yes, in mid and even more so late game airforce can be called superior over ground units. But that's in a way quite the development that weapon technology has gone through in between 1940 and 1950. Thing is in CoW, mid and much more so late game ground units are additionally threatened by some kind of 1980s cruise missiles and nuclear rockets. Not air dominance should be reduced (at least not much, and if so, only for late game!!), but the capability of rockets to destroy units. For example the way I described in my fifth post in this thread. That would be a sufficient relieve for ground units.

atreas1 · Apr 27th 2019, 12:49pm

The problem is that the first victim of the new technologies had been the tactical bombers, who were extinct very soon after WWII (see Wikipedia on that). One of the prime uses of rockets, quite soon, was as AA weapons - already in the early 70's that was fully functional, while nuclear weapons were never into use. Yet, here we have nukes but we dont have anything that can target planes on patrol.

Our focus should be gameplay: whoever doesnt understand that it is one-dimensional due to the continuous advance of planes, in rates unmatched by anything else, by their speed, by the fact they practically cannot be attacked by anything (planes are the ones who decide when they do battle), and various other glitches, is turning a blind eye in the problem. The so-called "nerfing" of planes, which was insufficient and poor, did solve nothing at all in my humble view.

BMfox · Apr 27th 2019, 1:22pm

atreas1 wrote:

The problem is that the first victim of the new technologies had been the tactical bombers, who were extinct very soon after WWII (see Wikipedia on that). One of the prime uses of rockets, quite soon, was as AA weapons - already in the early 70's that was fully functional, while nuclear weapons were never into use. Yet, here we have nukes but we dont have anything that can target planes on patrol.

Our focus should be gameplay: whoever doesnt understand that it is one-dimensional due to the continuous advance of planes, in rates unmatched by anything else, by their speed, by the fact they practically cannot be attacked by anything (planes are the ones who decide when they do battle), and various other glitches, is turning a blind eye in the problem. The so-called "nerfing" of planes, which was insufficient and poor, did solve nothing at all in my humble view.

AA attack planes on patrol when you are at war, so what's the problem? If you would have a rocket that takes out a stack of planes than planes in this game would be basically useless.

atreas1 · Apr 27th 2019, 1:31pm

BMfox wrote:

atreas1 wrote:

AA attack planes on patrol when you are at war, so what's the problem? If you would have a rocket that takes out a stack of planes than planes in this game would be basically useless.

You obviously are missing something about how the air battles are conducted. No, AA will not attack anything because the player with the planes will nudge them in the last moment, to avoid the AA and simply patrol over his units.

The other side's planes are equally helpless, because it will be a suicide to attack patroling planes.

BMfox · Apr 27th 2019, 1:44pm

atreas1 wrote:

BMfox wrote:

atreas1 wrote:

AA attack planes on patrol when you are at war, so what's the problem? If you would have a rocket that takes out a stack of planes than planes in this game would be basically useless.

You obviously are missing something about how the air battles are conducted. No, AA will not attack anything because the player with the planes will nudge them in the last moment, to avoid the AA and simply patrol over his units.
The other side's planes are equally helpless, because it will be a suicide to attack patroling planes.

If the player is online! The other sides planes aren't helpless, you don't attack patrolling planes obviously because you would get double damage but you can patrol in the same circle.

atreas1 · Apr 27th 2019, 1:48pm

Ok, now that we agreed that we cannot attack planes unless the other player wishes to, we can also agree there is no other unit that can avoid battle indefinitely, while at the same time performing important defensive duties. Which is exactly the reason planes have an unfair advantage.

RYANWEN · Apr 27th 2019, 2:32pm

You know? Actually the infantry thing is unnecessary because you should focus more on amor class. The rest are pretty good though. I also do not think you need to research transport ships.

RYANWEN · Apr 27th 2019, 2:38pm

patriota75 wrote:

I think that man power should be reduced for militia and infantry not food. I do not make them because of high man power, latter you do not need them so they are hardly used. They look cheap to make, but they are not. I make four at start of game and that is all. When I research tanks and arty I make it. Latter in game you do not need infantry.

That is true because it is not needed at the end but manpower is used up easily in the beginning. Also the rare materials should also be decreased during the research period in the beginning of war. At that time, research is really quick and we do that at tremendous speed. Rare materials fly away within 2 days, After that they turn out to be a heap of waste. I think we should increase rare material production rate at the beginning and decrease it as the game moves on.

BMfox · Apr 27th 2019, 2:40pm

RYANWEN wrote:

patriota75 wrote:

I think that man power should be reduced for militia and infantry not food. I do not make them because of high man power, latter you do not need them so they are hardly used. They look cheap to make, but they are not. I make four at start of game and that is all. When I research tanks and arty I make it. Latter in game you do not need infantry.

That is true because it is not needed at the end but manpower is used up easily in the beginning. Also the rare materials should also be decreased during the research period in the beginning of war. At that time, research is really quick and we do that at tremendous speed. Rare materials fly away within 2 days, After that they turn out to be a heap of waste. I think we should increase rare material production rate at the beginning and decrease it as the game moves on.

When you attack a player in the early phase of the game you won't have manpower problems.

RYANWEN · Apr 27th 2019, 2:48pm

BMfox wrote:

RYANWEN wrote:

patriota75 wrote:

I think that man power should be reduced for militia and infantry not food. I do not make them because of high man power, latter you do not need them so they are hardly used. They look cheap to make, but they are not. I make four at start of game and that is all. When I research tanks and arty I make it. Latter in game you do not need infantry.

That is true because it is not needed at the end but manpower is used up easily in the beginning. Also the rare materials should also be decreased during the research period in the beginning of war. At that time, research is really quick and we do that at tremendous speed. Rare materials fly away within 2 days, After that they turn out to be a heap of waste. I think we should increase rare material production rate at the beginning and decrease it as the game moves on.

When you attack a player in the early phase of the game you won't have manpower problems.

Actually, if you produce a lot it will. It only occurs when you only produce infantries. That happens to people that are not experienced. Sometimes experienced player forget the time they had that problem

BMfox · Apr 27th 2019, 2:55pm

True, but so don't produce infantry in the start of the game you already have enough of them. Produces AT first to protect you against armed cars, then go for artillery and tanks.

RYANWEN · Apr 27th 2019, 2:59pm

BMfox wrote:

True, but so don't produce infantry in the start of the game you already have enough of them. Produces AT first to protect you against armed cars, then go for artillery and tanks.

Why don't you say that in the tutorial of the game to help new players? That will benefit them.

atreas1 · Apr 27th 2019, 3:10pm

Unfortunately, a few Tutorials propose to build infantry at the start - a very dangerous advice.

Still, if you happen to be engaged in a critical fight at around Day 6-8, there is no way not to encounter manpower issues. This is of course very map-dependent, with the smaller maps being more probable for such an event.

RYANWEN · Apr 27th 2019, 3:16pm

Hello, I know but why don't we just make a better tutorial for the future?

BMfox · Apr 27th 2019, 3:28pm

read the guide i wrote: forum.callofwar.com/index.php?…t-vital-days-of-the-game/

also in the support and feedback > questions and answeres > community guides you can find a lot of interesting guides.

for the next balancing update

atreas1 wrote:

BMfox wrote:

atreas1 wrote:

atreas1 wrote:

BMfox wrote:

atreas1 wrote:

patriota75 wrote:

RYANWEN wrote:

patriota75 wrote:

BMfox wrote:

RYANWEN wrote:

patriota75 wrote:

BMfox wrote:

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