Research Balancing Update

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    • After a little testing, I'm quite baffled by HOW fast the research tree has become now. I mean, you can level up many units at day 2 already! On day 8 some, especially the navy, will even reach level 4 already! What? Why?
      This update has quite certainly given those who play the game all day a significant advantage in the early game, since one can start research after research, leaving those with lesser time on their hands in the dust by outclassing them with better units, even if those you build will take the same time to do so than before. This just feels wrong to me. Also, on the other hand, the speed for research has become so fast so that if you're up to speed, you can't even build stuff like medium tanks level 1, since infrastructure level 2 needs 2 days to be built, with the added in production time and getting them anywhere, shortage of resources, blah blah yada yada you may very well be able to tech them up to level 2 before they even see action, if you're not under attack, so this basically means that for stuff like infantry, milita, medium tanks etc. level 2 more or less is the new level 1, because you can tech them up that fast that level 1 becomes meaningless, a mere pesky stepping stone.
    • Its worst than you think actually, all the strategy for what units to research and when, has gone out the window. Before researching units took a much longer time compared to now, so you had to plan very carefully to ensure you do not fall behind the curve for certain critical units.

      Now you can focus on a couple of units and leave the rest of your tech tree blank and research them when you need them as you can catch up quickly. Lets say I focus on on ground units and ignore my airforce and suddenly realize I need fighters no problem I can have lvl2 in 10h and lvl3 fighters research in about a day and half. Before it would have taking me 4 days for lvl3 fighters (~triple the time) so there is no way I would allow myself to fall behind as it could literally cost me the game.

      So the game was dumbed down as it no longer rewards good planning and worst it doesn't punish bad planning as it did and as it should.
    • Kanaris wrote:

      Its worst than you think actually, all the strategy for what units to research and when, has gone out the window. Before researching units took a much longer time compared to now, so you had to plan very carefully to ensure you do not fall behind the curve for certain critical units.
      Its not worse, just different. A lot of counters are available much earlier to.

      Kanaris wrote:

      Now you can focus on a couple of units and leave the rest of your tech tree blank and research them when you need them as you can catch up quickly. Lets say I focus on on ground units and ignore my airforce and suddenly realize I need fighters no problem I can have lvl2 in 10h and lvl3 fighters research in about a day and half. Before it would have taking me 4 days for lvl3 fighters (~triple the time) so there is no way I would allow myself to fall behind as it could literally cost me the game.

      So the game was dumbed down as it no longer rewards good planning and worst it doesn't punish bad planning as it did and as it should.
      You still get dealt a major blow if you are a day and a half behind on your plane research compared to a heavy plane user.

      Aloriel wrote:


      This update has quite certainly given those who play the game all day a significant advantage in the early game, since one can start research after research, leaving those with lesser time on their hands in the dust by outclassing them with better units,
      This I find to be very true. Since the game allows for a broader spectrum of units to be used earlier on, higly active players can take their time figuring out exactly how to counter each enemy and take advantage of this by doing the appropriate research.

      It seems to me that activity has become more and more of an issue for differences to arise among players. I'd say that activity combined with knowledge of how the game works are actually the 2 most deciding factors in who wins a map.
      I do not know whether all the changes made it so or that I'm only after all these years seeying how much activity truly matters, but it sure matters a lot. Its not really what I had hoped the game would turn into. I like the idea of a game where strategy matters more than time investment does a whole lot more.
    • Dear Bytro,

      Despite all your best efforts to assure us that this research "balance" would not completely wreck game balance as I feared from the get go well its official now its two games in a row that all I see is tac spam as in 50+ per nation by day 20 all with their tech levels maxed and the cherry on the Sunday its raining nukes by day 25.

      Yes you read correctly there are nation deploying several nukes by day 25 enough to make the game unplayable and it happened 2 games in a row now.

      Thanks for turning what used to be a wonderful strategically deep thinking and planning game into pressing the "I WIN" button.
    • I mentioned the nukes issue already in the Beta page. They upped a bit the cost. This is indeed peanuts.

      Cost means nothing at this game, in big maps, and with big empires. The beta testing was I believe completely superficial not to spot that. I certainly am not going to play any map larger than the 22, because I have a rule:

      Any war game where nukes are the super-weapon is not worth my time. It is a shoot-em-up game.

      As for the planes, that might be cured IF THEY REALIZE the problem. But they are not seeing they have completely destroyed the balance of the game.
    • And another (in my humble opinion) TERRIBLE aspect of the new research tree.

      I can see that now the research time is depending on the day. This is completely unbalanced. It cannot be needing the same time to research (for example) arty Lvl3, SP arty Lvl1, tac bombers Lvl3, MT Lvl2 and Rockets Lvl2.

      In the next days the situation becomes even more tragic: Nuclear Power Lvl1 has the same research time as Infantry Lvl5. This is of course a complete nonsense. No wonder the games will become nuclear playground for kids.

      It is imperative that the infantry branch has smaller research times than armor, which has smaller research times than air, which has smaller research times than the Secret branch.
    • atreas1 wrote:

      Fun fact: I can bet that Infantry Lvl1 didnt have 24h research time (but I can also bet the Lvl1 is a typo).

      nemuritor98 wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      Fun fact: In the old balancing both Infantry Lvl1 and Nuclear Power level 1 had the same research time, both 24h.
      Then how comes that we could start producing infantry lvl1 a few minutes after we joined a day 1 match?
      My bad, indeed a typo. I meant level 2, the first "real" level that you research, not the one everyone researches by default.

      My point was though that nuclear power now takes longer to research compared to Inf than before the update, while the statement in this thread suggested otherwise. Just some clarification.
    • freezy wrote:

      My point was though that nuclear power now takes longer to research compared to Inf than before the update, while the statement in this thread suggested otherwise. Just some clarification.
      Yeah, could be longer, but not because the nuclear power takes longer than before, but because you reduced both things.
      Estoy dispuesto a darlo todo, a luchar por lo que soy, a ser libre dentro de mi, a guerrear mientras viva.

      Manual: Básico y Machiavelli
    • Why doesn't a certain level (lvl 6) in the "normal" Naval research tree need to be investigated to produce Nuclear BS, Nuclear subs and Nuclear Carriers? now I can produce nuclear carriers without knowing the construction of at least level 1 normal carrier ...?!

      For Nuclear Rockets this condition (rocket lvl 4) remained.


      That's not very logical ...


      I would suggest the need for basic research.