Pinned Popularity with Elite AI

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • As I mentioned before, my experience in my current game with Japan in 39 map appears to be that having the LARGEST armed forces is the dominant factor in determining popularity ... And if you have anywhere close to 100 regiments, you will not be far behind me in been unpopular.

      As I said before, I have been embargoing first, most of the time reaching 24 hrs, and then declaring war before attacking. But I got the feeling that doing so just prevents you from being more unpopular and you get no bonus points in popularity- even if you go to war with somebody more unpopular than you are ( ... wonder if CoW should create an algorithm for one getting more popular by going to war with somebody more unpopular than you are).

      So here are the popularity ratings of the top 5 countries in the 39 map in my current game- day 30:


      1) Japan 1%, 2) Sweden 1%, 3) Tibet 2%, 4) USA 1% (AI), 5) Italy 1% (AI)


      And it does not get much better as you go down the line! ... ?(
    • gusv wrote:

      I have been embargoing first, most of the time reaching 24 hrs, and then declaring war before attacking. But I got the feeling that doing so just prevents you from being more unpopular and you get no bonus points in popularity-
      This appears to be true.

      There is no way to pursue my objectives without losing popularity, but I use the guidelines stated above so that others will lose it faster. AIs have always embargoed someone else.This only seems to be a factor early in a round. Later in a round my popularity is always down to 1% but has little effect by then. I'm always pleased to make #1 on the “Most Dreaded” list. :)

      Popularity rises slightly (2%?) at day change in the case of no wars, but that doesn't happen much.
    • This generally states that when you want to declare war on someone, think about it first. You cannot declare war on Half of the globe and expect yourself to win. Even if you want to declare war on someone and you thought about it, put a trade embargo and then declare war so you will not (Surprise) other nations. This helps your popularity. Although declaring war on someone generally lowers your popularity. Never attack a nation without declaring war, this will lower your popularity and it also counts as a surprise attack which will be posted on the newspaper. When your popularity goes low, AI will try to kill you. Generally, popularity is easy to understand but hard to keep it up when you are trying to win.
      Ryan
      EN/ES/FR Forum Member
      Call of War Technician Fourth Grade
      Forum Lieutenant General
      Training Alliance Leader
    • Nooberium wrote:

      Seems that popularity most important toward the beginning of a round, less so later.
      Seems to be true very much. In my current game, not a single embargo or war declaration from Elite AI after day 11. Although there are several human led nations which became unpopular only afterwards.
      Looks like the aggressive behaviour of Elite AI is switched off at day 12(????)
      If so, I can't believe that's desirable(?)
      I very much propose that Elite AI must continue to punish bad behaviour throughout the game!!



      gusv wrote:

      wonder if CoW should create an algorithm for one getting more popular by going to war with somebody more unpopular than you are
      In my experience, that's already in place (which is good).
      Also see the rule as posted by BMfox & freezy:

      BMfox wrote:

      Actions that improve your popularity with elite AI:
      - being enemy with their enemies
      [...]

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hans A. Pils ().

    • Hans A. Pils wrote:

      I very much propose that Elite AI must continue to punish bad behaviour throughout the game!!
      I disagree because with the current algorithm all nations have under 5% popularity by day 30, perhaps because all have decent size armies. This means that all AI nations would declare war on all other nations! Perhaps the algorithm for declaring war should be relative by that time (e.g. declare war on nations with 1% or less popularity?). Also size of army should not be that big of a factor ... ?(
    • BMfox wrote:

      3rd don't skip steps in the diplomacy. If you are at peace, always give trade embargo first and declare war 24 hours later.
      That's a pity if this one really doesn't exist. Which I assume is the truth, unfortunately (because that couldn't be an easy implementation).
      I had that rule in mind during my current game and that made everything a lot more interesting - was good for a lot of challenging strategic decisions. So in case such a rule can be implemented easily, it would be great if this was done. But as said, sadly, I can't imagine it to be easy... so that's just a dream |-:


      ----------------------------
      At @gusv: You're right that currently it is too difficult to keep being popular with Elite AI during mid or late game (especially due to the popularity malus for large army while already being unpopular). But with the newest changes, it will be quite feasible. So I want to stick to my statement that Elite AI should keep it's aggressive behaviour throughout the game.
    • Hans A. Pils wrote:

      At @gusv: You're right that currently it is too difficult to keep being popular with Elite AI during mid or late game (especially due to the popularity malus for large army while already being unpopular). But with the newest changes, it will be quite feasible. So I want to stick to my statement that Elite AI should keep it's aggressive behaviour throughout the game.
      Exactly, when you are attacking other countries, how can you be so PEACEFUL?! You must at least declare war or surprise attack. That itself will lower your popularity. If Elite AI keeps the same behaviour throughout the game, do you mean that our actions will not influence their behaviours?
      Ryan
      EN/ES/FR Forum Member
      Call of War Technician Fourth Grade
      Forum Lieutenant General
      Training Alliance Leader
    • Ryan04px2025 wrote:

      If Elite AI keeps the same behaviour throughout the game, do you mean that our actions will not influence their behaviours?
      Perhaps I fumbled my words in the last post. I meant to advocate a change in the popularity algorithm, where the size of army was irrelevant- not behavior. In my last game, all countries, including AI, in the map were under 5% popularity- which I believe was due mainly to the large size of their armies after 30+ days.
    • Ryan04px2025 wrote:

      You must at least declare war or surprise attack. That itself will lower your popularity.
      Yes - unless you attack a nation that already is unpopular. I consider that to be correctly implemented. There must be a trade-off between
      a) playing aggressively against no matter whom (doing the Hitler) and thus taking advantage from attacking whatever neighbour that fits your expansion plans or
      b) playing advisedly and attacking only seldomly / only above expansionists. Playing the saviour of the AI countries by embargoing or attacking such evil, imperialistic nations.


      Ryan04px2025 wrote:

      If Elite AI keeps the same behaviour throughout the game, do you mean that our actions will not influence their behaviours?
      At @gusv: No, you didn't fumble your words. You criticized in perfectly clear language the (so far) strong popularity malus from building a lot of units. While I additionally criticized that - as I observed - Elite AI never(??!!) embargoes or declares war after day 11.
      Only Ryan must have misunderstood one of us.
    • Once again quoting:

      BMfox wrote:

      3rd don't skip steps in the diplomacy. If you are at peace, always give trade embargo first and declare war 24 hours later.
      After thinking about this some more, I'm sure that implementing this penalty can't be all that hard. Well, you would need a new table in the database storing which country degraded it's relation with which other country when for the last time. Columns:
      * Nation that did the degradation step.
      * Nation towards which the relation was degraded.
      * Datetime.
      (You might additionally put in place something like a scheduled batch or SQL that deletes entries older than 24 hours, so this table doesn't become unnecessarily large.)

      Once that table is in place, it's easy to implement:
      * If a player degrades a diplomatic relation two or more steps at once, first display a warning popup like "a sudden drastic action like this will harm our diplomatic reputation". If player clicks OK button on that popup -> popularity penalty.
      * If a player degrades a diplomatic relation one step and has an entry from last 24 hours in the new table, display a warning popup like "Degrading a diplomatic relation twice within 24 hours will harm our diplomatic reputation". If player clicks OK button on that popup -> same popularity penalty.
      * If two or even three steps are skipped, the penalty should be higher. That means the consequence of backstabbing is a strong popularity penalty.

      This new penalty would not only be extremely realistic, but would also make the game much more clever and interesting. For example, players would face the following decisions, just to name the major ones:
      * Do I now switch to a better diplomatic relation with this AI nation, or do I leave it because I might soon want to attack it? At the moment, you should blindly give all AI nations RoW or shared map. That's boring and keeps striving for a good popularity from being an interesting challenge.
      * Do I give this human player a sudden attack (and swallow the penalty), or rather first embargo - risking he and others on the map forebode my intentions?

      The new penalty would give you a lot to think asking yourself how the map will evolve - trying to anticipate the future.
      And players could even use a mutual RoW / shared maps as a peace treaty. Same as in reality, this peace treaty could be broken and also same as in real life you would know it has no relevance in case the other side doesn't care about it's popularity. But if the other nation does, you would know it's not very probable it attacks you within the next 24 / 48 hours.
      All in all it would add a lot of depth to diplomatic relations - would be great.