Call of War 1.5: Mechanics & New Balancing

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  • I am fairly new to this game and its possible others have already commented on this. So apologies if this is just reiterating what someone might have already stated.

    Observations about 1.5 CoW so far:

    1) Feels like air strategy (which is what I tend to prefer) is someone inhibited with the new changes. If you invest early on planes you will also have to invest early on lots of airstrips since your existing planes wont upgrade as you research level up nor will their ranges. The cost of all these closer airstrips places you at a serious disadvantage on land since so much of your resources are going towards extra airstrips. In WW2, air strategy was center stage from the onset of the war, in this game you almost have to wait til you have research leveled up planes to max before making the investment.

    2) Really dislike the need for all these extra building to build units. Sort of the same problem as with planes. once you invest in building higher level tank plants for example and then advance you have to invest again in building them closer to the front lines. Just the number of building required is greater than I would prefer.

    3) Something about the battle computation seems odd to me. Not sure yet if I prefer it or not, maybe just need to get use to it. For example, seems like it you could inflict lots of damage on a stack of tanks and the stack before the stack loses even a single tank. I guess this can go both ways so not sure yet if I like it or not, just not use to it.

    4) Just feels like not having research levels improve existing troops slows down the pace of the game and makes your early investments on units wasteful. Sometime your earliest troops will endure for the full span of the game thanks to researching levels up. Now you'll be replenishing troops more or even hoping they are killed off so you can replace them with higher level troops so you dont have to suffer the plenty of upkeeping lower level units.

    Overall, I would say I am sort of OK with the changes. Like someone above stated, its just new parameters of the game one needs to get use to but maybe I dont have the history with the game that others have. The one 1.5 feature I really dont like is the researching levels not affecting existing units.

    However, my biggest complaint of this game has little to do with 1.5 changes (though it seems like it exasperates it) and that is the issue of game speed. I much prefer the faster speed worlds. I get impatient with 1 day marches of troops hahaha.. I much rather play hard and fast for a week and then take weeks off than play slow for months but I digress.
  • I'm new here but I've played this game for over a year with a few months off at one point. I like the game a lot but I don't care at all for the accuracy of a WWII simulation or for any historical perspective. If any changes effect these things I don't care. I simply want to play a game with strategy and where I feel I have much the same opportunity for success as the other players.

    The main things I like about the game are still there with v1.5 but I was getting bored with the game and the refresh with new buildings and economy is somewhat exciting because I have to learn new strategies.

    Unfortunately the things I didn't like will still be there. The long delay between knowing you've won and finally getting the necessary points is number 1. So boring. Number 2 is the number of inactives, even in gold games and Frontline games.

    So I'm playing 2 event games, one the way I like to, with bombers and a good navy, and one without planes or ships. Day 6 and 7 now. I find I'm using a greater variety of land units, some I didn't bother with before, and this is good. Added fun. Learning to find ways to take advantage of the strengths of those units that have changed is also good.

    However I'm often frustrated at the inability to do anything due to lack of manpower. Even though I've captured the territory of the equivalent of 2 countries, and my growth is about 750/hr, manpower is always a problem, slowing the game down for me. The other thing that annoys me is having units of 3 different levels and knowing that some are or soon will be obsolete. Of course it's the same for all players so I may get to the point where I happily accept this game restraint, but I doubt it.

    I read here that bombers were finished as a viable unit, hence the game without them, but by day 6 I can't live without them for a little scouting and putting out spotfires. And in the game where I've had them since day 1, now level 3, they have been good, except for level 1 v troop transports. However it seems to me that all level 1 units are pretty ordinary, and if I play another game, I will not make any level 1 units except light tanks.

    I'm pretty sure I'll try the next v1.5 event, if it's not too far away, but I doubt I'll be playing any more 1.0 games for quite a while.
  • _Pontus_ wrote:

    Guys... did this just really happen?

    Don't laugh at this ....or better... you actually should laugh at this:

    Took a province in Poland. Had to stop for a moment, so pulled my units together in a mixed troops def-position and went away.
    Came back and see a tank army with MTs approaching from the west and LTs army from the north.

    So, remembering their terrible performance during the Polish invasion ... I hurriedly pulled my LT's out of my def-position and drove them behind the lines, when these tanks (with limited Inf and other cohorts) came to attack....

    Hadn't I done that, my LTs would surely have perished, as they like attracting a lot of damage and doing nothing worthwhile in def.
    Now my only ACs and Inf defended with arty cover, while my tanks ran away.
    (Can you imagine the shouting of the comrades from the AC and Inf detachments staying behind?: "COWARDS! USELESS MOFO'S! I WILL SHOOT YOU MYSELF WHEN YOU COME BACK AFTER THE BATTLE!".

    Result though:
    I don't have single casualty while enemy is dying of his last HP from the MT group.

    Now pulling in the LTs again to faster finish of that last bit of the attackers.

    Realism rules...somewhere....BUT NOT HERE!

    RIDICULOUS...

    This is the twighlight zone. Things turning weird... Could it turn even weirder?
    I agree that is RIDICULOUS and was thinking before version (1.5) was released that we would see something truly amazing seeing how we had a truly good foundation from which could have been the starting point (1.O) and introduce
    things such as nation military skins as even under the lend lease program nations that took military equiptment and
    introduced their own nations insigna ect. Hell just look at one nation in particular the united Kingdom ( England ) and
    this being one of quite a few in the game. England had great tanks (Churchill) great interceptors,(Spitfire)
    great ships (Duke of York) great bombers (Lancaster) so you see where im going how 1.0 could have been improved
    just right their across the board with many other nations / Also a very good tutorial for the cannon fodder would
    have been a great improvement rather than here's how you spend real money kids. There are so many things that
    could have been done over and better in the name of monetization. But i will leave some more truly great suggestions for later on guys. What we truly have is trash in 1.5 and a very lazy effort in regards to game (development improving.) Im here to play your product not tell you how to fix it or spend countless hours playing trash. when i did see written that it was said you's tested this 1.5 before releasing the event. so i will play 1.0 until the trashy 1.5 takes over. Then play a very in depth game not the trash i archived. ect hence the very lazy effort game development
    and if i do stay it will be because the finished product is better than 1.0 for me / for us the players that agree with
    myself & Pontus and you would be supprised in the end just how many like minded there are?

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Tin Military ().

  • Just a few observations:
    1. After a week, the initial enthusiasm seems to have worn off,
    and the drop out rate increased to the normal CoW levels.
    2. Only one player has been clever enough to exploit the heavily
    armed sea transports, and is successfully dispatching ground units
    on beach defense, since those units have very little power
    against naval units. {This exploit was also available on CoN, not
    sure if it still is?}
    3. One Player (yes, I admit, it's me) has used the 20cm guns now
    available on Destroyers to totally devastate enemy units that
    wander too close to shore, or buildings that were foolishly placed
    in coastal cities.
    4. Only one player (not me) has exploited the massively overpowered
    motorcycle infantry. Faster than armored cars, and greater attack values
    than level 2 light tanks.
    5. The maneuver/ counter maneuver aspect of CoW seems to be
    preserved, IF you have a worthy opponent.
  • _Pontus_ wrote:

    Further, S1 sports a number of innovations and though in its core it resembles The Real CoW a bit, it definitely is a different game, which has to be played differently.
    And - because it is a different game - that is not a problem, but an asset.
    True about Sone.
    Unfortunately, most games on Sone start with only a few players, and rapidly lose many of them.
    Of 19 games on Sone, I was the sole remaining player on 12.
    Another VERY unfortunate feature is that the unit icons and banners are so large that
    the battlespace is cluttered to the point you cannot select units or determine who is attacking what.
  • I can now build Heavy Tanks... One of the 'cool' units. But can anyone suggest why I would ever want to build one of those instead of two L2 MTs (available 2 days earlier)? Even if I somehow got the research unlocked for free? The low attack strength just guts their value. Too expensive, too slow, and too weak on the attack to ever be worth building, especially when you already have MTs researched and they do the HT's one job (defensive anti-armour pillbox) better.

    ----
    Rail Guns are ridiculously hard to assault, due to heavy armour (say what?) and 200hp. I'm a bit bitter because I lost a significant army stumbling in to one overnight. Their only weakness is that they don't do much damage on defensive ticks, but assuming the owner of the rail gun counter-attacks, my Medium Tank is doomed even if he didn't start shooting until I melee-attacked the gun for some reason. Come on now... Rail guns aren't armoured like a warship. They would be impossible to move. Is this supposed to be a (Wehrmacht drawing-board-only) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster ?

    ----
    Does anyone else get the general sense that units, while having faster speed values than status quo CoW, are actually moving around the map much more slowly than usual?

    The post was edited 2 times, last by CityOfAngels ().

  • CityOfAngels wrote:

    Does anyone else get the general sense that units, while having faster speed values than status quo CoW, are actually moving around the map much more slowly than usual?
    Yes!
    except for those Harley's with machine guns in their side cars,
    they are blazing fast!

    As I remember, there was a movement malus on Sone for units at less than 100% HP.
    Might that have carried over?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by WayneBo: add Sone comment ().

  • CityOfAngels wrote:

    I can now build Heavy Tanks... One of the 'cool' units. But can anyone suggest why I would ever want to build one of those instead of two L2 MTs (available 2 days earlier)? Even if I somehow got the research unlocked for free? The low attack strength just guts their value. Too expensive, too slow, and too weak on the attack to ever be worth building, especially when you already have MTs researched and they do the HT's one job (defensive anti-armour pillbox) better.

    ----
    Rail Guns are ridiculously hard to assault, due to heavy armour (say what?) and 200hp. I'm a bit bitter because I lost a significant army stumbling in to one overnight. Their only weakness is that they don't do much damage on defensive ticks, but assuming the owner of the rail gun counter-attacks, my Medium Tank is doomed even if he didn't start shooting until I melee-attacked the gun for some reason. Come on now... Rail guns aren't armoured like a warship. They would be impossible to move. Is this supposed to be a (Wehrmacht drawing-board-only) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster ?

    ----
    Does anyone else get the general sense that units, while having faster speed values than status quo CoW, are actually moving around the map much more slowly than usual?
    Yes.

    Even though we have faster production and combat times, the overall game feels slower than regular Call of War. Trying to be "Faster" ends up getting your units killed more easily.
  • f118 wrote:

    CzarHelllios wrote:

    Trying to be "Faster" ends up getting your units killed more easily.
    I forecasted that already in 2017, as some players wanted shortened production time and more frequently combat tiks.
    Yeah. Combat ticks were plenty fast enough for me in the original game - Considering we had Tacs and Arty and Lts, things would go through pretty fast. The new changes just make the overall metagame slower.
  • _Pontus_ wrote:

    Romania owns Yugo, Poland, Bulgaria, exactly half of Turkey and half of Greece.
    Now on the way to take the German possessions of Poland, tomorrow you can add Germany to the list.
    Might take Albania and remainders of Greece too.
    Day 8 as Über-Great Romania in Pokemon-CoW

    Blast....didn't log in all day, because I couldn't be bothered?
    So will finish adding Germany, Albania and Greece tomorrow.
    From now on its anyways Farmville and mopping up.

    Very enticing this new game...very.... I thought it was to make it easier for the 'blessed players', but it actually makes them lose even faster.... Strange.
  • Tin Military wrote:

    and if i do stay it will be because the finished product is better than 1.0 for me / for us the players that agree with
    myself & Pontus and you would be supprised in the end just how many like minded there are?
    That is the point I don't get.
    Even a train that left the station can turn back, by first using the breaks to come to a stand-still and then reversing.

    The key questions remain:
    - why this profound change to the game or factual new game?
    - for whom?

    It is not for your old client base... So much is clear.
  • CityOfAngels wrote:

    Does anyone else get the general sense that units, while having faster speed values than status quo CoW, are actually moving around the map much more slowly than usual?
    INDEED!!!

    I was wondering already, but I am glad you mention it.
    Every trip from A to B takes ages. Even my ACs go at turtle speed.
    The higher speeds are only figures, but in reality, movement has slowed.
  • _Pontus_ wrote:

    Tin Military wrote:

    and if i do stay it will be because the finished product is better than 1.0 for me / for us the players that agree with
    myself & Pontus and you would be supprised in the end just how many like minded there are?
    That is the point I don't get.Even a train that left the station can turn back, by first using the breaks to come to a stand-still and then reversing.

    The key questions remain:
    - why this profound change to the game or factual new game?
    - for whom?

    It is not for your old client base... So much is clear.
    Personally i think it all has to do with the prolific inactivity and the fact this was never addressed properly and
    lets face it how many username1234567 and so on start a map and just go inactive without even building anything
    or even recruiting some extra military and you rarely even get a response to message ect mail.
    Now im not a conspiracy theorist about the prolific inactivity but hell are half these username1234567 and so on
    even real people? The mind wanders when yet again your sitting on a map staring out for signs of life.
    Will the new version cow 1.5 address the inactivity. Not from what i have been reading and with regards to the key
    question / For Bytro Labs & company of course not for the player base that actually seem to love and believe
    in cow 1.0 and should be the starting point from which to address all things cow 1.0 not send it to the trash bin
    but rather continue to develop ect evolve an already very good product rather than replace it with cow 1.5 that
    will go to the monetization failure bin anyway.
  • 7thCircle wrote:

    I am fairly new to this game and its possible others have already commented on this. So apologies if this is just reiterating what someone might have already stated.

    Observations about 1.5 CoW so far:

    1) Feels like air strategy (which is what I tend to prefer) is someone inhibited with the new changes. If you invest early on planes you will also have to invest early on lots of airstrips since your existing planes wont upgrade as you research level up nor will their ranges. The cost of all these closer airstrips places you at a serious disadvantage on land since so much of your resources are going towards extra airstrips. In WW2, air strategy was center stage from the onset of the war, in this game you almost have to wait til you have research leveled up planes to max before making the investment.

    2) Really dislike the need for all these extra building to build units. Sort of the same problem as with planes. once you invest in building higher level tank plants for example and then advance you have to invest again in building them closer to the front lines. Just the number of building required is greater than I would prefer.

    3) Something about the battle computation seems odd to me. Not sure yet if I prefer it or not, maybe just need to get use to it. For example, seems like it you could inflict lots of damage on a stack of tanks and the stack before the stack loses even a single tank. I guess this can go both ways so not sure yet if I like it or not, just not use to it.

    4) Just feels like not having research levels improve existing troops slows down the pace of the game and makes your early investments on units wasteful. Sometime your earliest troops will endure for the full span of the game thanks to researching levels up. Now you'll be replenishing troops more or even hoping they are killed off so you can replace them with higher level troops so you dont have to suffer the plenty of upkeeping lower level units.

    Overall, I would say I am sort of OK with the changes. Like someone above stated, its just new parameters of the game one needs to get use to but maybe I dont have the history with the game that others have. The one 1.5 feature I really dont like is the researching levels not affecting existing units.

    However, my biggest complaint of this game has little to do with 1.5 changes (though it seems like it exasperates it) and that is the issue of game speed. I much prefer the faster speed worlds. I get impatient with 1 day marches of troops hahaha.. I much rather play hard and fast for a week and then take weeks off than play slow for months but I digress.
    Thanks for the feedback!

    1) we are planning to include an option to upgrade units on the map manually once you researched a higher level. There is also a feature in discussion that gives your planes the ability to exceed their attack range when traveling to another friendly airport.

    2) Understandable. Probably a thing we will keep though.

    3) This is indeed a new feature. Units start to die when the army drops below 50%.

    4) As said in 1), we will work on solutions for this.

    Regarding game speed: Probably you feel it is slower due to the lack of resources. We will rebalance this and probably increase the availability of resources in the next round.

    Dunzell wrote:

    I'm new here but I've played this game for over a year with a few months off at one point. I like the game a lot but I don't care at all for the accuracy of a WWII simulation or for any historical perspective. If any changes effect these things I don't care. I simply want to play a game with strategy and where I feel I have much the same opportunity for success as the other players.

    The main things I like about the game are still there with v1.5 but I was getting bored with the game and the refresh with new buildings and economy is somewhat exciting because I have to learn new strategies.

    Unfortunately the things I didn't like will still be there. The long delay between knowing you've won and finally getting the necessary points is number 1. So boring. Number 2 is the number of inactives, even in gold games and Frontline games.

    So I'm playing 2 event games, one the way I like to, with bombers and a good navy, and one without planes or ships. Day 6 and 7 now. I find I'm using a greater variety of land units, some I didn't bother with before, and this is good. Added fun. Learning to find ways to take advantage of the strengths of those units that have changed is also good.

    However I'm often frustrated at the inability to do anything due to lack of manpower. Even though I've captured the territory of the equivalent of 2 countries, and my growth is about 750/hr, manpower is always a problem, slowing the game down for me. The other thing that annoys me is having units of 3 different levels and knowing that some are or soon will be obsolete. Of course it's the same for all players so I may get to the point where I happily accept this game restraint, but I doubt it.

    I read here that bombers were finished as a viable unit, hence the game without them, but by day 6 I can't live without them for a little scouting and putting out spotfires. And in the game where I've had them since day 1, now level 3, they have been good, except for level 1 v troop transports. However it seems to me that all level 1 units are pretty ordinary, and if I play another game, I will not make any level 1 units except light tanks.

    I'm pretty sure I'll try the next v1.5 event, if it's not too far away, but I doubt I'll be playing any more 1.0 games for quite a while.
    Thanks for the feedback!

    Great to hear that you are able to deploy different strategies.

    We got alot of feedback that resources aree too scarce, so we will likely increase availability of resources in the second round of Events.
    We are also planning to provide options to level up units manually after they were built, should help with the remaining lvl1 units.


    CityOfAngels wrote:

    I can now build Heavy Tanks... One of the 'cool' units. But can anyone suggest why I would ever want to build one of those instead of two L2 MTs (available 2 days earlier)? Even if I somehow got the research unlocked for free? The low attack strength just guts their value. Too expensive, too slow, and too weak on the attack to ever be worth building, especially when you already have MTs researched and they do the HT's one job (defensive anti-armour pillbox) better.

    ----
    Rail Guns are ridiculously hard to assault, due to heavy armour (say what?) and 200hp. I'm a bit bitter because I lost a significant army stumbling in to one overnight. Their only weakness is that they don't do much damage on defensive ticks, but assuming the owner of the rail gun counter-attacks, my Medium Tank is doomed even if he didn't start shooting until I melee-attacked the gun for some reason. Come on now... Rail guns aren't armoured like a warship. They would be impossible to move. Is this supposed to be a (Wehrmacht drawing-board-only) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster ?

    ----
    Does anyone else get the general sense that units, while having faster speed values than status quo CoW, are actually moving around the map much more slowly than usual?
    We will probably swap some Tank stats to make them more realistic and give them better usability. Also we will invest time in balancing units against eachother to make sure that stats on the same level are comparable, one thing we didn't do enough for Event 1.

    Railroad Guns are a unit that require building level 3. If you compare it to other armored units of that type, its stats are still comparable. It is a bit tankier, but also slower. But for sure this isnt the final balance, and stuff like this we will review and finetune.

    It would really surprise me if actual movement speed is slower in this version, technically that really cannot be. Is it maybe just an impression because the whole game feels slower due to resource scarcity? We will work on that point, so maybe then things will feel faster overall. Also, it depends on which maps you compare, because size of nations are different on some maps. For example on the 22p speed tutorial map, the map size is 25% smaller than on regular 22p maps. Also the 100p map has smaller provinces due to its total size. The 1.5 map is a copy of the regular 22p map, so should have the same distances. Nevertheless we will check if there is a bug with the unit speed values.
  • Immortal unit bug wasn't fixed in 1.5 version. Game #2890637 - Air unit based in Budapest went to convoy when ground units took the city. Instead of dying, it's accumulating negative hit points (currently at -1345), but still returning fire. Ground units are stuck so will all die unless resolved.
  • Very recently I have been 'stomped' for not giving a detailed technical and dry analysis of what is wrong with Pokemon-CoW, but giving it to the public in a more creative way, demonstrating the ridiculous nature of some changes.
    Though everyone else got the meaning exactly, it went beyond that reader.
    Thus here goes for a new analysis of the game so far, in which I will give a few tries:

    Try A. Whats not wrong with Pokemon-CoW?

    Oh? That was not dry? More detail wanted? Here goes:

    Try B. In 1 phrase: Everything FEELS wrong, while the FEELING of a game determines its success, like the FEELING of a glove, which, if it fits well, YOU WILL LIKE to wear and when it doesn't, you will NOT CHOOSE to wear.

    Not enough? OK then, here goes another try:

    Try C. Herewith a list of failures in Pokemon-CoW; that is, if it pretends to be a worthy replacement of The Real CoW.
    These do not deal with exact numbers, because exact numbers are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the core principle of most misconceptions. The numbers accompanying these misconceptions can easily be changed; the misconceptions are at the core of the new game though, and cannot be changed without again changing the game:

    1. Buildings:
    a. Every building is now practically single-use, single-purpose, which kills all variety and freedom in choices to shape your economy and industry and thus army and thus your military campaign and thus your own play-style.

    b. Indeed, there are little side effects to buildings, like a 1% moral influence for a Weapon Factory, which besides being completely illogical, is such a minor influence that it is ridiculous.
    It goes so far that I am now building weapons factories and barracks in far away industrial centres - which will never-ever produce a single unit - to solely improve moral, because for some weird logic applied by who knows who, Infrastructure (which provides a 5% moral influence bonus) can't be constructed in cities...
    c. Buildings require manpower to be constructed. NOT temporarily, no, they consume it.... Excuse me? Yes, they consume it. It is like in the Soviet Union during Stalin or Brezniev: "Send the prisoners to build that road! Work 'm till they are dead!" Or, much earlier with the Pyramids, where all workers who knew too much of the construction were killed off, so no-one could tell where the entrance points were. (Sorry, I cannot go dryer in my descriptions; descriptions must live IMO)
    So, in Pokemon-CoW, you send 3400 workers to build a level 4 IC (say 5-6 hrs wait-time to gather them and 14-15 hrs to get even from increased manpower production = a set back of roughly 20 hrs... ) and then, when the building is finished, you kill them all. Where is the realism in that???

    2. Units:
    a. Unit roles are being changed away from realism, simply because a certain role must be filled or must be eliminated in the eyes of the devs.
    But isn''t this supposed to be a RTGS WW2 simulation game? Or is it just an imitation of a Chinese-Money-Sink-Game?
    Like: "Don't complain. Just learn the new roles and you will be fine. Who cares whether they are realistic? "
    Well, I do. It was one of the great features of CoW as it was.
    As someone proposed earlier: why have PZ III's (or was it IV's?) on the map, if they might just as well be Monster Insects shooting laser beams from their butts?
    b. Unit stats are so terribly misconceived and unrealistic!
    -i- Light Tanks have to run away from defensive positions, when other Light Tanks attack that position, and thus leave the defense to ACs and Infantry... Astonishingly, the ACs and Inf easily will shred the tank attacks, which still leaves me flabbergasted. And not just me...even on 'The Other Side' things are stirring up....(of which my witness account was given to the public).
    -ii- Motorcycle infantry...the new early game super weapon... The what..? Yes; those...
    -iii- ACs have become super defenders...rrrright...so realistic in WW2. In WW1, ACs shielded the crew relatively well and their mobile machine guns were effective weapons...in WW1. Their role in WW2 can be looked up on Wikipedia, but I can tell you already: it was not defending positions against tank attacks...
    In short: this new set up for unit roles is just bollocks!
    And no, I don't have to give the numbers that go with misconceived stats. They are known by the devs and visible to the players and tweaking the numbers will not change their misconceived role.
    c. Units have become - like the buildings - single purpose. Can it defend, than it must not be capable of attack and vice-versa. That seems to be the new ruling logic..... What a load of crock!

    3. Economy
    a. Moral management posed a challenge in The Real CoW, but you had a wealth of options, depending your resource situation. What changed? Well, the only way to support moral in industrial centres is to construct weapon factories and barracks...
    Do I need to elaborate on this really? I surely hope not! That's just a load of cobblers!
    b. Resource management posed a challenge, but you had a wealth of options in The Real CoW.
    And now? IC's are what is needed for resource production increases, functioning much like mines or farms... And since they increase resource production, well, they also increase manpower and income, because essentially these are also resources. Short on something? Build an IC.
    Yes, that may be correct, but it is not sexy at all. And again this 1-dimensional approach thus wipes other dimensions from the game and limits choices, thus decreases complexity and challenges. Maybe that is thought to be good for 'blessed players' but I severely doubt it.
    For one, because if you could not manage your resources and income in The Real CoW, the limited options you have now, will only make it worse. The cost of ICs is so high, that leveling up ICs in your cores kills all other progress. Even now, at >1000 manpower production, leveling up a level 4 IC stops me short of doing anything else for hours, because of the workers being executed after completing the building.
    Basically resource management now means: kill your neighbor ASAP or starve.

    4. Research
    The most important input is again manpower. already in short supply and than cash, also in short supply. How boring; what a lack of imagination has struck the people who developed The Real CoW, S1914 and S1. So now I have to build ICs everywhere to be able to do research?
    What does this result in? Right: endless waiting. Farmville, watching the crop grow and harvest when it is time....
    But I thought we were playing a cool RTGS WW2 simulation?

    5. Battle
    Über-simplified. I have nothing to say about it; that simple it is.

    6. Other weird mechanics
    - Unit speeds have increased in the stats, but factually everything moves slower over the map.
    - Battle-tick now 30mins. But everything else is slowed down.


    It all boils down to reducing FREE choices with which you could develop your own play-style.
    You are molding all choices into the same format.
    Because of the lack of choices and options, the game has now been über-simplified one side and on the other it is now over-complicated.

    The result? It does not feel good. It is less fun. It is less realistic.

    Was it needed? The old game was improving in smaller steps and going the right way until the bad changes to market, diplo and fire settings...
    Until the bad changes it was by far the best MMO RTGS game around. That is a status Pokemon-CoW can never achieve.

    And why put effort and time into changing The Real CoW into a S1 look-alike?
    S1 has not even been truly launched yet and already you create something that will cannibalize on it.
    For sure this Pokemon-CoW looks too much like S1 and thus there will be no incentive to play both.
    The Real CoW, being quite different from S1 and S1 offering completely different concepts as well as being a faster game, can very well be played next to S1.

    The logic at Bytro eludes me.

    Hint: Please read up on 'New Coke' ánd also on how Philips build its strategy to introduce first the 1-headed electric shaver, then the 2-headed and then the 3-headed one and how they capitalized on this.

    The post was edited 4 times, last by _Pontus_ ().

  • This will be looking into some more economical/rss issues in 1.5

    I haven't felt that troops are moving slower but yes the pace of the game feels WAY slower which maybe gives that feeling. Normally by day 8 I will be producing more than 4 units at a time. While sure it depends on the unit (arty I can spam the crap out of while planes are slower to produce) only 4 is really slow and now they also take 8+ hours to produce the game has slowed further, while day 3ish it began to speed up and felt quite nice, now it is feeling really slow and tbh I dont think solely an increase to starting rss would solve it.

    I think that this is partially due to not enough rss at the beginning of the game yes, but even at day 8 things are still slow, an increase of early rss would have enabled faster expansion so this day 8 lull may be less, but in general either building prices and troop prices seem too high (esp planes of which I will have a total of 6 before I am out of rares for more) or production of rss is too low. It seems harder to get up ICs and without infra there is only 1 method to increase rss production (outside of war). The economy side of CoW seems to be lacking in 1.5

    Also the 1.5k rare cost of air strips is really high, combined with the high rare cost of planes I am unable to move my air around. Given in 100 maps I am often building 5-10 ABs a day to ensure no rockets, spies can knock my planes out of action, this cost is REALLY high as will lead to either build ABs or planes, but not both which kind of means neither because without ABs, planes are useless, and without planes, ABs are useless.

    I have 2x lvl 3 ICs and soon my double rare to lvl 4 but I lack mostly manpower but also other rss to get them up to increase my rss to get out of this lull period. I am building 1xlvl 1 and 1xlvl 3 IC, 2 lvl 2 tacs, 1 lvl 3 LT and 1xlvl 1 SPA and have no more manpower for more anything and only 900 rares left (which I stockpiled pretty much from day 1) and am at +560/hr atm.

    Manpower ofc I dont think I have had more than 2.5k of it and even at day 8 with 90 provinces I have 2k atm and am waiting on more for more buildings. This has been said to be improved next patch which is good but I want to acknowledge it is an ongoing not just early game issue.

    I think to fix the initial rss issues starting with more would solve it. But this will need to be determined next patch whether there is also a general lack of rss in general or whether starting with more would enable constant growth, But I believe it is the first of these option and thus believe troop and building prices will need to be lowered or a flat total increase in rss production across the board, or both.

    I also believe there should be another option to increase rss, in version 1 we had infra and ICs and even forts for further away provinces to aid in moral. In this we just have ICs which while they do the same total job (+100% production at lvl 5) It feels like less, and is harder to obtain. In a very basic nutshell in V1 if you had excess oil you could build infra and not enough oil ICs. They where relatively cheaper to increase which ultimately made it easier as if you get 2 cheaper methods to increase by 10% and do it twice it will lead to more rss produced than one more expensive 20% increase.

    I would recommend to solve this to add another building to increase rss production, whether that is the old method of IC and infra or an alternate one. Only having one method to increase rss feels like a dumbed down version and also makes it more difficult to increase rss, thus making the game slower and more boring due to a lack of diversity. Given what I believe is a general increase in costs to build and decrease in ability to increase rss production. I would actually recommend keeping IC at lvl 5+100% rss and infra at +50% at lvl 3 to attempt to solve stuff being too expensive. Or both at 50% and a general decrease in costs of troops and buildings. This can be adjusted, perhaps +60% for both and a decrease to troop/building costs.

    Troops and my evaluation of their costs: (not their combat effectiveness but costs)
    I havnt build every troops but of the ones I have;
    I will split into 3 categories; (manpower is an issue for everything tho)
    1 of they are very/ maybe too cheap, 2 they are okay, manpower is lacking but everything else is tough but increase in early game rss may solve this (may but we shall have to wait) and 3) they are too expensive.

    AT - 1
    AA - 1 (only built 2 of them)

    Artillery - 2
    Light Tanks - 2
    Self-propelled artillery - 2

    Interceptors - 3
    Tactical bombers - 3

    For both planes rare cost is very high and not something I am able to produce many of despite saving my rares pretty much from day 1.

    I would have liked to try and build more troops but I lack the manpower to even research them.

    Research is very tough due to manpower and early game cash constraints.

    Also a single method to increase manpower would be nice, as I said, ICs are just flat too expensive.

    Also plane movement speed while they move faster in the air the 30 minute - 60 minute refuel time is very slow and is too high IMO. We shouldnt have to build lvl 2-3 ABs in all provinces just to move planes around without having to wait for 30+ mins, esp given the general lack of available rss it is not feasible.

    Hopefully this provides enough detail of my day 8 experience of the economy, I think an increase in starting rss will help but some troops and all buildings (esp IC) are a struggle to upgrade/train. Also an additional building to increase rss and manpower would be great as atm only 1/none is quite boring and feels like a step down from version 1.
    Torpedo28000
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