First off all I want to appologize for my English, since I'm not a native speaker.
In this toppic I want to discuss the food production en how it's spende, since it feels really imbalanced to me. Not only food is imbalanced, the whole economy system is imbalanced. Those who doubt me, just go to your game and open the market. How many goods are there too buy? How many too sell? And how about food, or oil or iron? Only the rare materials seem balanced too me.
Back to the food. A lot has been said about this. Some say make units cheaper, increase production. In game people say shut down your barracks, stop making infantry, make factories and infrastructure. Right... we all know that. I've been playing 3 weeks now and the 3 games I continued to play I'm #1 army strenght, victory points and production. I gess I do ok.
Last week I've been noticing that my dear Germany's army is becoming weaker and weaker. I'm day 17 now with 346 victory points. I've shut down the last of my barracks like 10 days ago and since then relied on planes, tanks, subs and the infantry I already had. Still my food production kept going more into the negative as I continued to conquer territory and continued to increase the infrasturcture level in Hannover for more food production and making sure the moraal is 100%. At first I didn't understandt how this was possible untill I looked at the details of food income and expenses.
Income 23.213 food/day
Expenses on army 3.100 food/day
expenses for civillians 20.592 food/day
My civillians eat all the food! WHY? Please also check in your games how this is divided, it also differs a lot between countries.
Lets add a little more detail to the above.
Income of food is 23.213/day.
I have 1 core province that produces food. 10.085 food/day. 100% moraal and 160% production bonus (still increasing it). Without production bonusses this would be 6.555/day.
My non-core provinces produce 23.213 (total)-10.085 (core province) = 13.133 food/day.
Expenses on civillians is 20.592 food/day in total.
All my german core provinces combined cost me 3187 food/day (5 minets of excell work).
So my non-core provinces cost me 20.592-3.187= 16.221food/day.
16.221 food/day to feed the civillians in all my non-core provinces, while those provinces only produce 13.133 food/day (thank god I conquered ukraine, or I would produce even less). This is a deficit of 3.092 food/day. How should I fill this gap. Currently I already have a few factories, infrastructure and harbours active in non-core provinces to increase my food production. this is an heavy investment for a small reward. Who wants to spend 3k iron, 2k oil, 10k dollars and 3k goods to see food production go from 800/day too 880/day?
To answer the previous question, where do we get the food to fill up the deficit that's present in our non-core provinces? Well we shut down our barracks after 1 week of playing. After that we tend to lean to a small negative production of food that doesn't hurt the moraal of our provinces yet and buy some on the market if we have too. The next step is too cut down in upkeep costs of our army and that is only possible if we reduce the number of troops (less infantry, less tanks, less planes, less ships... less is better).
Basicly it is a punishment to conquer enemy territory. You gain more production of iron, rare material, oil, more money, more menpower, but the thing that matters the most is food. The netto food production will decline as calculated above and you army size will shrink as you continue your conquest. Meaning that that small neighbour of yours with 40 victory points can maintain a bigger army than you. Purely because he will have more food left to spend on his army.
On the 22-player map some countries really struglle with this problem. Like Germany in my example. I also play as Ukraine and I don't have any food problem at all as Ukraine, simply because my core provinces produce a rediculous amount of food. I spend 9k a day on barrack upkeep and I'm ok with that, while fighting 2 countries at once and production is continually running in like 15 city's. This also creates a really imbalanced situation between countries that produce a lot of food and those that produce only a little food. You can't make up for it by buying food in the market, since your moraal will go down if your production of food is too low (it's not like buying iron or rare materials that don't have any influence on moraal). Overall I like the differences between the countries, it makes you approach them differently.
Now inmagine how things will work out on the 100-player map. Since your netto food production decreases as you continue too conquer countries, there will be a point that you will not be able too maintain an army at all since all the food will have to be spend on civillian units. This map will be a huge faillure with the current balance of food.
I think it's nessecairy to make some adjustments.
I prefer a reduction of food consumption of the civillians. I think a good balance would be the following. Total food consumpiontion of civillians in all provinces = total food production of all provinces as non-core province with 50% moraal.
Back to the game. On the 22-player map the total food consumption of all civillians in all provinces (so every province you can find on the whole map) should be equall to the food production of all provinces (all provinces you can find on the map). These provinces must be considered as non-core province and with 50% moral penalty.
Why non-core? If you conquer something it's a non-core province. And those non-core provinces should be able to break even with the food costs in these provinces. Leaving the bonus you get from your core provinces (and any buildings) you made to spend on upgrades, upkeep and whatever.
Why 50% moraal, why not 25% or 100%? I think 50% is nice. These provinces will have to be held several days before the moraal is risen to 50%, asking for some effort of the conqueror before they pay off. Why not 100%? Who has 100% moraal in all his non-core provinces? Nobody. This will still lead to a deficit of food production if you implement it with 100% moraal. With 50% moraal players will break even (most of the time non-core provinces have moraal going from 25% too 100%) or make even a small profit of food without disturbing the power of the armies it and it's enemies can field.
There will be some complications of this change.
1) People will have more food to spend on army and builing upkeep, it should be considered to elevate all upkeep costs too keep army size in check.
2) Food will become cheaper on the market. In other words everything else will become a little more expensive, which is good since oil and iron is pretty much for free after several days of playing and don't get me started on goods (the civil population use very little goods, it also needs balancing and its production is messed up too, but that's another discussion).
Let me know whta you guys think. And please do the math in your games yourself if you have any doubts or see mistakes/ weird numbers in my post.
In this toppic I want to discuss the food production en how it's spende, since it feels really imbalanced to me. Not only food is imbalanced, the whole economy system is imbalanced. Those who doubt me, just go to your game and open the market. How many goods are there too buy? How many too sell? And how about food, or oil or iron? Only the rare materials seem balanced too me.
Back to the food. A lot has been said about this. Some say make units cheaper, increase production. In game people say shut down your barracks, stop making infantry, make factories and infrastructure. Right... we all know that. I've been playing 3 weeks now and the 3 games I continued to play I'm #1 army strenght, victory points and production. I gess I do ok.
Last week I've been noticing that my dear Germany's army is becoming weaker and weaker. I'm day 17 now with 346 victory points. I've shut down the last of my barracks like 10 days ago and since then relied on planes, tanks, subs and the infantry I already had. Still my food production kept going more into the negative as I continued to conquer territory and continued to increase the infrasturcture level in Hannover for more food production and making sure the moraal is 100%. At first I didn't understandt how this was possible untill I looked at the details of food income and expenses.
Income 23.213 food/day
Expenses on army 3.100 food/day
expenses for civillians 20.592 food/day
My civillians eat all the food! WHY? Please also check in your games how this is divided, it also differs a lot between countries.
Lets add a little more detail to the above.
Income of food is 23.213/day.
I have 1 core province that produces food. 10.085 food/day. 100% moraal and 160% production bonus (still increasing it). Without production bonusses this would be 6.555/day.
My non-core provinces produce 23.213 (total)-10.085 (core province) = 13.133 food/day.
Expenses on civillians is 20.592 food/day in total.
All my german core provinces combined cost me 3187 food/day (5 minets of excell work).
So my non-core provinces cost me 20.592-3.187= 16.221food/day.
16.221 food/day to feed the civillians in all my non-core provinces, while those provinces only produce 13.133 food/day (thank god I conquered ukraine, or I would produce even less). This is a deficit of 3.092 food/day. How should I fill this gap. Currently I already have a few factories, infrastructure and harbours active in non-core provinces to increase my food production. this is an heavy investment for a small reward. Who wants to spend 3k iron, 2k oil, 10k dollars and 3k goods to see food production go from 800/day too 880/day?
To answer the previous question, where do we get the food to fill up the deficit that's present in our non-core provinces? Well we shut down our barracks after 1 week of playing. After that we tend to lean to a small negative production of food that doesn't hurt the moraal of our provinces yet and buy some on the market if we have too. The next step is too cut down in upkeep costs of our army and that is only possible if we reduce the number of troops (less infantry, less tanks, less planes, less ships... less is better).
Basicly it is a punishment to conquer enemy territory. You gain more production of iron, rare material, oil, more money, more menpower, but the thing that matters the most is food. The netto food production will decline as calculated above and you army size will shrink as you continue your conquest. Meaning that that small neighbour of yours with 40 victory points can maintain a bigger army than you. Purely because he will have more food left to spend on his army.
On the 22-player map some countries really struglle with this problem. Like Germany in my example. I also play as Ukraine and I don't have any food problem at all as Ukraine, simply because my core provinces produce a rediculous amount of food. I spend 9k a day on barrack upkeep and I'm ok with that, while fighting 2 countries at once and production is continually running in like 15 city's. This also creates a really imbalanced situation between countries that produce a lot of food and those that produce only a little food. You can't make up for it by buying food in the market, since your moraal will go down if your production of food is too low (it's not like buying iron or rare materials that don't have any influence on moraal). Overall I like the differences between the countries, it makes you approach them differently.
Now inmagine how things will work out on the 100-player map. Since your netto food production decreases as you continue too conquer countries, there will be a point that you will not be able too maintain an army at all since all the food will have to be spend on civillian units. This map will be a huge faillure with the current balance of food.
I think it's nessecairy to make some adjustments.
I prefer a reduction of food consumption of the civillians. I think a good balance would be the following. Total food consumpiontion of civillians in all provinces = total food production of all provinces as non-core province with 50% moraal.
Back to the game. On the 22-player map the total food consumption of all civillians in all provinces (so every province you can find on the whole map) should be equall to the food production of all provinces (all provinces you can find on the map). These provinces must be considered as non-core province and with 50% moral penalty.
Why non-core? If you conquer something it's a non-core province. And those non-core provinces should be able to break even with the food costs in these provinces. Leaving the bonus you get from your core provinces (and any buildings) you made to spend on upgrades, upkeep and whatever.
Why 50% moraal, why not 25% or 100%? I think 50% is nice. These provinces will have to be held several days before the moraal is risen to 50%, asking for some effort of the conqueror before they pay off. Why not 100%? Who has 100% moraal in all his non-core provinces? Nobody. This will still lead to a deficit of food production if you implement it with 100% moraal. With 50% moraal players will break even (most of the time non-core provinces have moraal going from 25% too 100%) or make even a small profit of food without disturbing the power of the armies it and it's enemies can field.
There will be some complications of this change.
1) People will have more food to spend on army and builing upkeep, it should be considered to elevate all upkeep costs too keep army size in check.
2) Food will become cheaper on the market. In other words everything else will become a little more expensive, which is good since oil and iron is pretty much for free after several days of playing and don't get me started on goods (the civil population use very little goods, it also needs balancing and its production is messed up too, but that's another discussion).
Let me know whta you guys think. And please do the math in your games yourself if you have any doubts or see mistakes/ weird numbers in my post.