Where can I find the artillery vs. aircraft on the ground attack value?

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    • Where can I find the artillery vs. aircraft on the ground attack value?

      Clearly, given enough time, artillery will destroy fully refueled aircraft units that remain on the ground. And, no, I am not talking about un-fueled aircraft, or aircraft in truck convoy form that are grounded by virtue of a damaged airbase . . . . So, where do I go to find the artillery vs. aircraft on the ground attack value? Are aircraft being bombarded as such treated as ground units?

    • MontanaBB wrote:

      Clearly, given enough time, artillery will destroy fully refueled aircraft units that remain on the ground. And, no, I am not talking about un-fueled aircraft, or aircraft in truck convoy form that are grounded by virtue of a damaged airbase . . . . So, where do I go to find the artillery vs. aircraft on the ground attack value? Are aircraft being bombarded as such treated as ground units?
      As far as I have seen, it does not do anything but still try to get it verified from someone.

    • MontanaBB wrote:

      Clearly, given enough time, artillery will destroy fully refueled aircraft units that remain on the ground.
      If I read you correctly, you are referring to RL and common sense. Here's my understanding of the (quirky) mechanics:

      'Refueled aircraft' are displayed on the ground but the game treats them as if in the air (they will defend air attacks). In melee battles they have full hit points and can counter-attack, taking damage from return fire of ground units. When all supporting ground units killed, battle ends, province is captured and planes reduced to convoys. Attacker may need to manually attack the convoy - it's not automatic.

    • Gentlemen, to be perfectly clear:

      1. aircraft unit is on the ground;

      2. aircraft unit is fully refueled;

      3. air base is fully functional (100% completed L1 or above);

      4. artillery is bombarding the base from a distance;

      5. air base is not damaged sufficiently to convert aircraft units to truck convoys;

      6. air base is not captured by enemy units, nor contested in battle by enemy units;

      7. if player (or AI) were not asleep at the switch, aircraft unit could be flown away at any time prior to its destruction; and

      And, YES, artillery fire can destroy the aircraft unit on the ground, fully refueled, with a functional, uncaptured, uncontested air base. I have done it myself as recently as this evening, in a 50-player Pacific map game, using a five-regiment battery of L3 artillery against a single L1 interceptor unit on the ground. I later captured the air base, AFTER I had destroyed both the aircraft unit and a single defending ground unit with artillery fire. Try it, you too can do it.

      So, what is the hidden game mechanic here -- is an aircraft on the ground treated as a 20, 25 or 30-hit point ground unit for purposes of arty attack values, or are there other, unpublished numbers?

      @VorlonFCW, @Restrisiko, @K.Rokossovski, @freezy -- do any of you have an answer at your finger tips?

    • Please see screenshot from in-game newspaper below:

      Screenshot 2020-05-12 Call of War -- newspaper cliipping re aircraft destroyed by bombardment.png

      Please note that the aircraft (17th Fighter Squadron) was destroyed on the ground at 5:21 am GMT. Fifteen minutes later, the armored car unit guarding the air base/province was also destroyed at 5:36 am GMT. When the artillery bombardment ceased, the L1 airbase was still 100% intact.

      And, yes, I watched the whole thing in real time. This is one of those twice-speed "tutorial" games played on the Pacific map, if you were wondering how the same arty battery could destroy two units in a relatively short period of time.

      Furthermore, I have done this more than once before. It can be done.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MontanaBB ().

    • That isn't a listed value because it isn't an expected use of artillery to kill planes, naturally units can't jump into the sky and chase planes down, so listing such data indicates you could.

      In the game code, all units should have some attack value against all other units, albeit small, because otherwise you would have battles that continue forever if you have units that do zero damage to each other.


      In practice: Regular artillery do very little damage to planes parked on the ground, SP arty are better for that purpose by a little. It still takes a lot of time or a lot of firepower.

      The best practice is to use artillery to destroy the ground units defending the province, and then rush in to sieze the province and capture the planes on the ground, this turns the planes into a helpless convoy as you deny them an airbase to operate from.

      Second best is to destroy the airbase with bombardment, or sabotage, and then the helpless airplane convoys are an infantry class unit that is vulnerable to artillery fire.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<

    • VorlonFCW wrote:

      That isn't a listed value because it isn't an expected use of artillery to kill planes, naturally units can't jump into the sky and chase planes down, so listing such data indicates you could.

      In the game code, all units should have some attack value against all other units, albeit small, because otherwise you would have battles that continue forever if you have units that do zero damage to each other.


      In practice: Regular artillery do very little damage to planes parked on the ground, SP arty are better for that purpose by a little. It still takes a lot of time or a lot of firepower.

      The best practice is to use artillery to destroy the ground units defending the province, and then rush in to sieze the province and capture the planes on the ground, this turns the planes into a helpless convoy as you deny them an airbase to operate from.

      Second best is to destroy the airbase with bombardment, or sabotage, and then the helpless airplane convoys are an infantry class unit that is vulnerable to artillery fire.
      so when will they publish stats for other units?

    • Not all values are shown to not confuse players with situations which rarely ever arise.


      Rule of thumb:

      Units have a certain attack to defense ratio, e.g. being twice as strong in attack than in defence, or being half as strong, or being even (just examples).

      You can see that by comparing the damage values for attacking / defending in the unit details panel. The ratio is valid for all values of that unit. A unit cannot have for example double the attacking power vs. unarmored but only half the attacking power vs. aircraft when compared to its defending stats.

      This means that you can easily determine the unpublished stats yourself, as long as you have at least the attacking or defending value.

      For basic artillery: Since it is twice as strong when attacking compared to defending, this means that the attack damage vs. aircraft is twice the damage it uses for defending vs. aircraft. So 2.0 when attacking aircraft.


      When neither attacking nor defending value is specified, then the value is indeed not specified for the unit. Then a hardcoded value is used depending on the combat type, for example it's a very low value (dont know the exact one right now, probably between 0.1 and 0.3?) for melee land units attacking ships.

    • freezy wrote:

      For basic artillery: Since it is twice as strong when attacking compared to defending, this means that the attack damage vs. aircraft is twice the damage it uses for defending vs. aircraft. So 2.0 when attacking aircraft.
      Thank you, @freezy. That's the answer I'm seeking.

      Your extended answer and explanation were helpful and educational as background. Thank you for that, as well.

      I was getting many previous opinions, educated guesses, and extrapolations from other scenarios. Clearly, several early responders did not understand my question.

      I have killed or damaged aircraft units on the ground with artillery many times. More often than not, the human player or AI wakes up and flies them away before you get the chance to finish the job. But such is not always the case.

      I make extensive use of artillery, both conventional towed arty and self-propelled. I recently even sank an aircraft carrier at its construction port with arty. Not the quickest process, but completely possible given time and patience. Arty is clearly more effective against aircraft on the ground than it is vs. capital ships, but I digress.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MontanaBB ().

    • As always, the number of units on each side makes a big difference.


      also if your first volley damaged the airbase turning the planes into convoys, that makes them easier for the second volley to kill.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<

    • VorlonFCW wrote:

      also if your first volley damaged the airbase turning the planes into convoys
      No, sir, L1 air base was still intact (5/5 hit points) until my units captured it, and aircraft unit was not a truck convoy. Obviously truck convoys are easier to kill (and treated as ground units) because of the reduced hit points from 20 for a fighter unit to 5 as a truck convoy. That was not the scenario here.

      I had a very specific question, and freezy wins the Cup!

    • I played game from 2016 till now with some pause of maybe a year of total. So lets say I play it about a 3 years. Values shown to attack or defend are some guide what to expect, but they are not fully exact. I still do not know how the game mehanic works, for example, interceptors will make huge damage to arty even if you calculate values it will not. Destroyers will kill grounded planes and they actually do not have attack value. Strenght is value I do not know how works too, I play on experience. I know about x factor, but I think it goes above 100%, i do not have other explanation. Arty will kill landed planes, little slower than other units.
      "Then, when you run out of ammunition and the enemy continues to advance - to the bayonet, when they break your knife - to your hands, when they break both of your hands - to your teeth, when you get the last tooth knocked out, as long as you move, as long you are there - attack! When they mortally wound you, see to it that you fall in their way, so they have to go around you, jump over you or move you - bother them even in death!" speech of lieutenant Tasic before battle of Cer 1914.

    • OK, but I still do not get it. example, you use one rocket on a stack of 8 destryers, 4 crusers, 4 battleship and 3 aircraft carriers and you destroy one destryer, In stats rocet makes 22 damage and destroyer has 75 HP, so how it works?
      "Then, when you run out of ammunition and the enemy continues to advance - to the bayonet, when they break your knife - to your hands, when they break both of your hands - to your teeth, when you get the last tooth knocked out, as long as you move, as long you are there - attack! When they mortally wound you, see to it that you fall in their way, so they have to go around you, jump over you or move you - bother them even in death!" speech of lieutenant Tasic before battle of Cer 1914.

    • patriota75 wrote:

      OK, but I still do not get it. example, you use one rocket on a stack of 8 destryers, 4 crusers, 4 battleship and 3 aircraft carriers and you destroy one destryer, In stats rocet makes 22 damage and destroyer has 75 HP, so how it works?
      WW2-era rockets should have no attack values vs. naval units, because they could barely hit the broad side of London, let alone an individual regiment size unit in the field. Or a moving destroyer. LOL

      You know the Germans only tried to use the V2 in one tactical situation, right? To bring down the Ludendorff Beridge at Remagen, which the Allies captured mostly intact as the last bridge standing across the Rhine River into Germany. Crack SS rocket units fired something like a dozen V2s at the bridge. None found their target. The closest two landed in the town of Remagen with one in the river a couple thousand meters away (remarkably accurate for the tech of the time). One of the dozen landed 40 km away.

      So, in-game rockets are grotesquely over-powered against all units.