when to charge trade fee

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    • when to charge trade fee

      I see two advantages the trading fee has:
      * Players cannot wildly place and remove orders on the market and adapt their offers immediately to newly placed offers from others. Before the trade few was in place, this had led to obscure situations and made the market difficult to use, since you knew that placing a buy offer would quickly make others enter one themselves offering 0.1$ more for the respective resource - so all the achieved by placing buy orders was to increase the market price for the resource you need. Same issue for sell orders. This someties created an ugly deadlock on the market, which the trade fee resolved.
      * Very few, clever players used to "hide" their resources on the market just the moment before one of their resource provinces got conquered. Afterwards removed that order again so they passed this moment without any losses. This could also be resolved by the trade fee.

      On the other hand, the trade fee as it is at the moment also has one big disadvantage: Players who rightfully want to trade are hindered from doing so on the market to some extent. Many players consider this to be very annoying and I also would prefer a more active market.


      Suggestion: Don't charge any fee if placing or accepting an offer on the market. Instead charge 10% or 20% if removing an own offer from the market (after click on the "X"-button for removing the order, show a confirmation popup mentioning this would cost the fee).
      This solution would maintain both advantages of the fee and make us get rid of the disadvantage.

    • The big question remains: where does all that money go?
      "As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable." Albert Einstein

      "Giving up is not an option in war, for it proves one's incapability and incompetence as a leader." - Me (Little Racoon)

    • Hans A. Pils wrote:

      Before the trade few was in place, this had led to obscure situations and made the market difficult to use, since you knew that placing a buy offer would quickly make others enter one themselves offering 0.1$ more for the respective resource - so all the achieved by placing buy orders was to increase the market price for the resource you need.
      Obscure? You have described an auction, the very essence of a free market. Very simple - when demand is high, prices go up. Those with economic power can drive the market but that has always been part of life in the big city.

      I thought resource hiding was the reason for adding the fee. There was a big discussion about this back when. IMO the fee was the wrong solution because there is a better fix that doesn't make the market mechanics complicated and ugly. IDK if there there was another reason for the fee. AFAIK, Bytro didn't fully explain but they seemed rather committed to the fee.

      The fee is punitive - far higher than anything in RL so its purpose is to discourage price orders. I may buy or sell at market price if necessary but I no longer make price orders. That part of the game is now just a noob trap.

    • Nooberium wrote:

      I thought resource hiding was the reason for adding the fee.
      As much as I remember, you're right that this was the only reason given officially. And definitely you're right there would have been way less incisive and even easier measures to prevent resource hiding. That's why I described that I noticed a second positive effect of the trade fees: They actually improve everyone's behaviour on the market. Think back of how it was before they were in place: Assuming you had a buy order on the market. You made the highest bid for that resource so far, so you're confident that sooner or later your offer gets accepted. Now somebody else places a buy order for 0.1$ higher price. What did you do then? You of course removed your previous order and overbid that somebody else by replacing your order with again 0.1$ higher prize. Those were obscure dynamics which favoured those who were constantly online checking and replacing their market bids. Was a tedious, boring duty you had to fulfill if you wanted to be a good player. And - as I said in my original post - often led to a deadlock, because you knew that after placing an order, next moment you'll be already outbidden. So you better let it be in order not to raise the market prize for the resource you need.
      Same principle for sell offers.

      Conclusion is we should never go back to a market without any fees. But charging them only when withdrawing an order from the market would maintain the positive effect I described above - and at the same time clear the negative effect of restricting players freedom to use the market a lot.