Call of War 1.5: Introducing Doctrines

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    • Doctrines should be only on Historical maps:

      Historical WWII,

      Va Banque,
      English Channel
      Biltzkreig
      Mediterranean theater (I hope it will return <3)
      On other maps, countries are aligned, if they are not mistaken, they have such a task. How is the player to feel on such a map, if he gets "worse doctrine" and loses, of course: Axis is to conduct a light war. Nobody is getting ready properly. That's my opinion.


      I think it's too big update and a lot of new experiences. Maybe in other countries there are positive feedback. Unfortunately, I did not receive a positive remark about 1.5 (I doubt that this will come into play without 1.5).

      I apologize for any language errors if they appear in this text

    • Torpedo28000 wrote:

      After spending a little time talking with others and reading them myself over more. I think this could be quite a nice addition as they are fairly broad but can provide some bonuses to different strategies. I feel axis and allies are pretty strong and well balanced, my previous issues about starting units I still stand by but perhaps a little less (forgot about rocket arty).

      I personally however think pan Asian is a little too weak. We will see when the even comes but view range doesn’t really at least for me add much, I use a lot of scouts and reveals so this feature I feel is far weaker than others.
      Unit speed is nice, but again I do feel it isn’t as strong as production speed, unit cost, damage/health. But that could just be me and if others love it then this doctrine works as each one does not suit everyone.

      Comintern, for a player like myself is totally not how I play (I like a high KD play style) but can see how it can be done well. If I was placed into a game as the Comintern I probably would just play as I do without it, resulting in the doctrine hampering how I want to play, and thus not be so enjoyable and really an annoyance.

      I do however think it would be better if they where not fixed nation specific. I think players will choose nations based off doctrines yes to match their play style. So if one is never picked then likely it’d needs to be buffed rather than saying they should be nation specific so they will be used. For if it is weaker then forcing players to use it somewhat... sucks and may lead to higher drop outs in maps/an overall dislike for doctrines. But if we can choose then it will also be more apparent which doctrines perhaps need to be buffed/nerfed as an added bonus.

      I personally think the axis or allies suits my play style. Probably axis more so and I am really looking forward to trying it out to see whether this can even further enhance how I play. I do place an emphasis on low losses with highly quality units, which seems to be how the Axis is oriented. But should these nations be taken in a map then it is counter intuitive to have to pick a nation with a doctrine that I don’t like/don't want to play. For if I want to try it I can just pick it, don’t force one on people just to ensure they are all played. If one is not played then it should be tweaked so it will be used.
      Yes, I do believe that k/d ratio will definitely change. I am wondering if there is a special alter to it that can change your k/d ratio of that game depending on which doctrine you use so that you will not have too much advantage in one doctrine and contribute too much to your k/d ratio and stats.

      Hans A. Pils wrote:

      WascallywabbitCDN wrote:

      would be cool to be able to choose any doctrine no matter what country you choose.
      Please NOT!!!
      If players were able to choose, the positive authenticity effect would be inverted: Since they would choose fully irrespective of their nation, we would see a lot of USAs with Comintern/Asian/Axis doctrine, a lot of Soviet Unions with Axis/Allies doctrine and so on. That wouldn't make the game more historical, but even drastically less historical. It would feel absurd.
      Furthermore, if you could choose, you would always just pick the doctrine that matches your play style. Keep in mind there are a number of aspects you have to consider when doing your country choice the moment you enter a map. Now you'll have to value the other aspects against the question which country has your favourite doctrine. That will become an interesting & nice choice!

      On the long run, a game is way more interesting and challenging if you don't have to or even cannot use the same approach in each match. And exactly that is achieved by making the doctrine a fix setting for each country on the map.
      That is exactly why it is here. ;) Doctrines match the country type and player type not because of what you wanted!!! Also, keep in mind that this is different from CON that the unit amount and attack stats are different even at the same level which i think is pretty cool.
      BeaveRyan
      Moderator
      EN Community Support | Bytro Labs Gmbh


      Training Alliance United Leader

    • blue44elephant wrote:

      The devs actually did their research and then added these. If they allow everyone to chose their doctrine then no one will play certain doctrines and their work will be gone to trash.
      I can see this being a nice enhancement. I'm sure its been well tested prior to release. How you distribute the Doctrine advantages within the continents, could be decisive to game play.

    • This is a good time to bring up the problem that keeps getting completely ignored in all these 'upgrades'. Once again, I'm in an alliance. Once again we have several players with no way to communicate. This alliance will crumble as all alliances I've been in because we can't talk to each other out of a game. We can't set up games, or communicate at all as a group.

      And before discord users chime in I'll answer that right now. There is no way I am going to spend my time in trying to train a bunch of other people on how to load and use freeware to play this game. So how avout it COW, can you add an ability to accomplish group messaging, outside of Game Rounds, so I can communicate with alliance members?

      No matter how much fun the strategic or tactical play is with all the tweeks (i mean improvements), it's ends up being quite boring when you can't communicate with your group.

    • Balhog wrote:

      blue44elephant wrote:

      The devs actually did their research and then added these. If they allow everyone to chose their doctrine then no one will play certain doctrines and their work will be gone to trash.
      I can see this being a nice enhancement. I'm sure its been well tested prior to release. How you distribute the Doctrine advantages within the continents, could be decisive to game play
      If you want to run around with axis doctrine then go choose an axis country but don't whine about not being able to choose doctrine, I don't want see Germany rolling around an M4 Sherman. Conflict of nations has the system.

    • Torpedo28000 wrote:

      Wow, this is a big addition for sure. I am going to wait until I play before really forming an opinion to determine how well balanced and fair these new doctrines are. I think they could add some very interesting changes, as long as no one is too strong/ weak.

      I do have one very large concern tho. Hopefully I am simply reading it incorrectly. But for axis the availability of artillery and light tanks is pushed back +1/+2 and allies LT is also pushed back, now i’m not entirely sure what that means. But if it means day 1 I can’t produce LT or Arty then I categorically believe this needs to change... what units are these players surprised to build then?! The early game is dominated by arty and LT spam, if a player cannot even do one of these it will not matter for anything else they will start the game at such a disadvantage I personally would never play one of these axis nations.

      I very much hope i’m just reading it wrong / if I am not that is very quickly changed. If it is for future research and not day 1, I can understand that but if day 1/ day 2 you cannot build arty or LT that needs to change. As it gives you such a huge disadvantage as they really are the dominance early game.
      Good feedback. We made it so that the +1/+2 research penalties do not affect research levels on day 1, to not disable any vital counter units at the beginning of the game. I will add this note to the forum manual page to make it more clear.

      Torpedo28000 wrote:

      I do however think it would be better if they where not fixed nation specific. I think players will choose nations based off doctrines yes to match their play style. So if one is never picked then likely it’d needs to be buffed rather than saying they should be nation specific so they will be used. For if it is weaker then forcing players to use it somewhat... sucks and may lead to higher drop outs in maps/an overall dislike for doctrines. But if we can choose then it will also be more apparent which doctrines perhaps need to be buffed/nerfed as an added bonus.
      In this first iteration of Doctrines they will be country specific. Depending on how the test goes we could discuss to make them selectable independently, but there are still some hurdles to solve before that is possible. For example what happens with countries that have not been chosen (yet) and are played by the AI? Do they belong to their standard Doctrine, that can be changed once someone joins? But then it would be weird if suddenly their Doctrine switches, might throw other players off. It would also require an extra step to select the Doctrine somewhere, and also the possibility to switch out existing units on the map (which may have been moved already) with units of another Doctrine (in our system this is not done via bonuses, but units of Doctrine A are actually handled as different units than Doctrine B in the engine). And then there is of course the argument about historical consistency, which has to be weighed against the advantages of giving players choice.

      Berlin01R wrote:

      If I get to take a city or province that is producing a unit and it is of a different doctrine than mine. What's going on?
      You will then get a unit which has the stats of the other doctrine and which also cannot be upgraded. It will also not mix in your army with the same units of your doctrine. But it will have the appearance of your doctrine on the map (thats due to how the engine works). Maybe we will tweak this edge case in the future.

      f118 wrote:

      Berlin01R wrote:

      If I get to take a city or province that is producing a unit and it is of a different doctrine than mine. What's going on?
      If unit is ready it will have your doctrin.
      For now the spawned unit will then be of the other doctrine (meaning it has the stats of the other doctrine), but it will have the appearance of your doctrine.

      Balhog wrote:

      This is a good time to bring up the problem that keeps getting completely ignored in all these 'upgrades'. Once again, I'm in an alliance. Once again we have several players with no way to communicate. This alliance will crumble as all alliances I've been in because we can't talk to each other out of a game. We can't set up games, or communicate at all as a group.

      And before discord users chime in I'll answer that right now. There is no way I am going to spend my time in trying to train a bunch of other people on how to load and use freeware to play this game. So how avout it COW, can you add an ability to accomplish group messaging, outside of Game Rounds, so I can communicate with alliance members?

      No matter how much fun the strategic or tactical play is with all the tweeks (i mean improvements), it's ends up being quite boring when you can't communicate with your group.
      Thats a bit off-topic here :) Once we are done with CoW1.5 more social features and communication features will be likely on our plate, but it will take a while still until we get there.

    • kris107 wrote:

      This is a great idea...... But how can we use it? Can we choose which doctrine we want to be? In which games will it be used? when is it going to become effective?
      You can choose your country which belongs to one of the four Doctrines.
      It will be in effect in all game rounds marked as "1.5".
      The next CoW1.5 rounds start "soon", probably still in May.

    • Taligor wrote:

      This is the same as CON, if you want to play and tast it, the only thing that you have to do is play a game in CON.
      Nah, wrong place to advertise. It is not the "same" CON doctrines have the same attack and defense counters for infantry units of the same level but COW doctrines are actually useful and is not plain skin differences.
      BeaveRyan
      Moderator
      EN Community Support | Bytro Labs Gmbh


      Training Alliance United Leader