Call of War 1.5: Introducing Doctrines

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    • I saw the pan-asian doctrina has 25% terrain bonus...is this for all the types of terrain? Because it has 10% less damage + 25% bonus terrain is 15% bonus in total. Am I right?
      I dont like this 1.5 in general, but the doctrines implement is a good idea, it makes the game more versatile.
      (Excuse my mistakes in english) ;)

      Att. teniente Somanta.
      Si no tienes posibilidades de vencer, es el momento de atacar.

    • Somanta wrote:

      I saw the pan-asian doctrina has 25% terrain bonus...is this for all the types of terrain? Because it has 10% less damage + 25% bonus terrain is 15% bonus in total. Am I right?
      I dont like this 1.5 in general, but the doctrines implement is a good idea, it makes the game more versatile.
      (Excuse my mistakes in english) ;)

      Att. teniente Somanta.
      The doctrine bonus is for the specific for the terrain bonus a unit gets. So for example armour has +50% bonus in plains. With Pan Asian doctrine it becomes +75% bonus in plains. I believe in 1.5 every unit or majority of units now have bonuses for different terrains.
      Torpedo28000
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

    • Hey, guys. @freezy I have been wondering about how much it affects our k/d ratio. Perhaps, the k/d ratio changes according to what doctrine you are playing. Eg. *1.25 kill for every Comintern doctrine kill. Because you will definitely lose more than you win in that doctrine. So players balance their k/d ratio by increasing the kill or decreasing the kill depending on the kill to death advantage you have.
      BeaveRyan
      Moderator
      EN Community Support | Bytro Labs Gmbh


      Training Alliance United Leader

    • Ryan04px2025 wrote:

      Hey, guys. @freezy I have been wondering about how much it affects our k/d ratio. Perhaps, the k/d ratio changes according to what doctrine you are playing. Eg. *1.25 kill for every Comintern doctrine kill. Because you will definitely lose more than you win in that doctrine. So players balance their k/d ratio by increasing the kill or decreasing the kill depending on the kill to death advantage you have.
      I think they will just count as normal kills.
      Personally I think it should just be this way. Each doctrine is meant to be balanced. For example, axis doctrine sure has 15% stronger troops, but also a 10% smaller army. This means players will need to juggle less troops but more effective ones. Comintern will have 15% more troops but they do 10% less damage. I personally think they will all balance out. While in a 1v1 sure axis will win. But there should not be a 1v1 fight. Comintern will bring more troops and thus have the potential for more HP and damage in the fight, and Axis will bring stronger troops so same thing.

      I believe that it is up to each player to use their doctrine to beat the other. Comintern might lose more sure, but if they bring more troops with the new troops don't die until 50% condition mechanic I personally don't think the KD will be that impacted. More to die sure, but also more to kill meaning it is harder so they may not die so fast.

      This is all speculation ofc. I also suspect should one doctrine become too dominant / weak they will be buffed.
      Torpedo28000
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

    • @Ryan04px2025 and @Taligor it's good you bring up the topic of how K/D will work in CoW1.5.

      K/D is not some meaningless statistics that nobody cares about. Apart from the victories you achieved (and these by the way are pretty much hidden as the conglomeration of the games joined / games won figure, maps joined and the victory achievements on the bottom of the achievements list), it's your only indicator of success.
      If it becomes blurred too much by CoW1.5 changes, that would leave only striving for the victory on your current map as motivation to lead your country well. Sometimes achieving victory is too easy. While in other situations or for other players, it's impossible. If victory was the only goal, players who see it getting out of reach would be very much tempted to quit that map... even more so than they are now already. Also it would be pretty much single-sided / boring. Making K/D blurry and thus insignificant would be like taking away the artistic score from ski-jumping. It would still be a sport, but not an interesting one any more (if only wideness of the jump counts).

      CoW1.5.2 already is an issue for the significance of K/D. Because players that care about their K/D are inclined to research higher unit levels (earlier) than they would if they were only caring about the victory. While the two goals "victory" and "good K/D" shouldn't be contradictory. In CoW1.0 there is always only one "right" decision that will make you achieve both goals and that should be kept up.
      Now doctrines make this issue worse.

      I therefore suggest the following changes to K/D:
      * Each unit has an attribute "military points". This is already the case, only these aren't displayed anywhere. They from now on should be displayed in the unit detail view. No need to sacrifice space for it - could be for example behind the unit name like this:

      (with a tooltip saying "military points" when hovering over it).
      * K/D should be changed from
      "number of units killed (against human players)" / "number of units lost (against human players)"
      to
      "number of military points gained (against human players)" / "number of military points other (human) players gained by killing your units".
      * Units from Comintern doctrine should have slightly less military points than Allies or PanAsian ones. While Axis units should have the most.
      * Military points should increase a bit with researching higher levels.

      These changes would allow players to make their doctrine, research and build choices irrespective of whether they rather care about victory or rather about K/D. And it could be used in a new ranking - see --> this proposal <--.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Hans A. Pils ().

    • Torpedo28000 wrote:

      The doctrine bonus is for the specific for the terrain bonus a unit gets. So for example armour has +50% bonus in plains. With Pan Asian doctrine it becomes +75% bonus in plains. I believe in 1.5 every unit or majority of units now have bonuses for different terrains.
      Ok but do all units receive the terrain bonus ? Because some units such as AT cannons don't have an inherent terrain bonus, so which bonus do they then receive ? None ?
      Also, pan-asian light tanks receive a bonus of 15% against infantry. Do these boni stack ? Aka if a pan-asian LT fight infantry on Plains terrain, does it have a 50% + 25% + 15% = 90% bonus ?

      If so, I am SO playing that doctrine lol

    • Chimere wrote:

      I really don't think that applying bonus and malus BY UNIT in a given doctrine is a good idea. I actually think it is a bad idea for two important reasons

      - It means that some countries are just way better (or worse) than other with some units, which means that instead of choosing what you are going to research depending on your natural resources, on your neighbours own research and basically on your strategic situation, you will do the research depending on your doctrine strength & weaknesses. And if your natural resources are not fit you are screwed
      Pretty much all good reasons why we should be able to choose whatever doctrine we want instead of having it forced on us.

    • Torpedo28000 wrote:

      I believe that it is up to each player to use their doctrine to beat the other. Comintern might lose more sure, but if they bring more troops with the new troops don't die until 50% condition mechanic I personally don't think the KD will be that impacted. More to die sure, but also more to kill meaning it is harder so they may not die so fast.
      This aspect is only very slightly softening the issue. In order to retract a damaged stack from the front, you first of all need to get a chance to do so before it's annihilated. Secondly, you need the will to pay upkeep for the damaged stack while it's recovering somewhere away from the front. Thirdly, you need enough other troops you can send to the front instead of them. In most cases, one of these three conditions isn't met.

      Anyhow if four equally good players each play with a different doctrine on a balanced map, all four of them have the same chance on victory. But the Axis player will for sure end the game with best K/D, while the Comintern player will have the worst of these four.
      Consequently, players who care about K/D will always choose Axis countries and for sure never ever Comintern. Which partly takes the fun out of the good doctrine balance. The doctrines are balanced so each has same chance on victory. Which is good and should be kept up. But the issue with K/D is there - you can't talk that away.

    • VIRVCOBRV wrote:

      Torpedo28000 wrote:

      The doctrine bonus is for the specific for the terrain bonus a unit gets. So for example armour has +50% bonus in plains. With Pan Asian doctrine it becomes +75% bonus in plains. I believe in 1.5 every unit or majority of units now have bonuses for different terrains.
      Ok but do all units receive the terrain bonus ? Because some units such as AT cannons don't have an inherent terrain bonus, so which bonus do they then receive ? None ?Also, pan-asian light tanks receive a bonus of 15% against infantry. Do these boni stack ? Aka if a pan-asian LT fight infantry on Plains terrain, does it have a 50% + 25% + 15% = 90% bonus ?

      If so, I am SO playing that doctrine lol
      It has been a while since I last played 1.5, so Freezy or another dev would be able to answer better than I, but until they do ill write something to assist :) From my memory all units bar planes (and navy obv) have terrain bonuses, and troops no longer have negative ones. Which I always wondered about but this pan asian doctrine could explain that new change...almost like it was planned :).

      I would assume yes to the adding of bonuses. But again Freezy or another dev can confirm/denny this. But it would make sense to me that they would stack.
      Torpedo28000
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

    • Kd ratio of good players will fly by every doktrine, kd ratio of bad players will fall by every doctrine...
      Comintern has some nice buffed landunits, so kd ratio by land vs land battle will be raise vs allies and pan asia and stay equal against axis. Airforce kd for sure win axis anyway, but allies can be equal or nearby equal.

      Air to soil surface will be again comintern and allies parity in long time, but with big advantage for allies on research day, slightly disadvatage for axis and strong disadvantages for pan asia. Dont even counted axis soil to air defence bonus...

      Pan asia will have weakest kd ratio since hp debuff for most units.
      But they can be for sure big surprize.

    • Hans A. Pils wrote:

      @Ryan04px2025 and @Taligor it's good you bring up the topic of how K/D will work in CoW1.5.

      K/D is not some meaningless statistics that nobody cares about. Apart from the victories you achieved (and these by the way are pretty much hidden as the conglomeration of the games joined / games won figure, maps joined and the victory achievements on the bottom of the achievements list), it's your only indicator of success.
      If it becomes blurred too much by CoW1.5 changes, that would leave only striving for the victory on your current map as motivation to lead your country well. Sometimes achieving victory is too easy. While in other situations or for other players, it's impossible. If victory was the only goal, players who see it getting out of reach would be very much tempted to quit that map... even more so than they are now already. Also it would be pretty much single-sided / boring. Making K/D blurry and thus insignificant would be like taking away the artistic score from ski-jumping. It would still be a sport, but not an interesting one any more (if only wideness of the jump counts).

      CoW1.5.2 already is an issue for the significance of K/D. Because players that care about their K/D are inclined to research higher unit levels (earlier) than they would if they were only caring about the victory. While the two goals "victory" and "good K/D" shouldn't be contradictory. In CoW1.0 there is always only one "right" decision that will make you achieve both goals and that should be kept up.
      Now doctrines make this issue worse.

      I therefore suggest the following changes to K/D:
      * Each unit has an attribute "military points". This is already the case, only these aren't displayed anywhere. They from now on should be displayed in the unit detail view. No need to sacrifice space for it - could be for example behind the unit name like this:

      (with a tooltip saying "military points" when hovering over it).
      * K/D should be changed from
      "number of units killed (against human players)" / "number of units lost (against human players)"
      to
      "number of military points gained (against human players)" / "number of military points other (human) players gained by killing your units".
      * Units from Comintern doctrine should have slightly less military points than Allies or PanAsian ones. While Axis units should have the most.
      * Military points should increase a bit with researching higher levels.

      These changes would allow players to make their doctrine, research and build choices irrespective of whether they rather care about victory or rather about K/D. And it could be used in a new ranking - see --> this proposal <--.
      Nice one! Thanks! So I am guessing each type of unit/doctrine/level has a different rate of getting the military points? If so, that is what I am thinking about! A new system.
      BeaveRyan
      Moderator
      EN Community Support | Bytro Labs Gmbh


      Training Alliance United Leader

    • Taligor wrote:

      And what about stadistics? there are a reset? It's a new game, must be a new stadistics.
      Current statistics will continue to be used, so you won't lose what you gathered so far and can still gain new stats by playing 1.5.

      Hans A. Pils wrote:

      @Ryan04px2025 and @Taligor it's good you bring up the topic of how K/D will work in CoW1.5.

      K/D is not some meaningless statistics that nobody cares about. Apart from the victories you achieved (and these by the way are pretty much hidden as the conglomeration of the games joined / games won figure, maps joined and the victory achievements on the bottom of the achievements list), it's your only indicator of success.
      If it becomes blurred too much by CoW1.5 changes, that would leave only striving for the victory on your current map as motivation to lead your country well. Sometimes achieving victory is too easy. While in other situations or for other players, it's impossible. If victory was the only goal, players who see it getting out of reach would be very much tempted to quit that map... even more so than they are now already. Also it would be pretty much single-sided / boring. Making K/D blurry and thus insignificant would be like taking away the artistic score from ski-jumping. It would still be a sport, but not an interesting one any more (if only wideness of the jump counts).

      CoW1.5.2 already is an issue for the significance of K/D. Because players that care about their K/D are inclined to research higher unit levels (earlier) than they would if they were only caring about the victory. While the two goals "victory" and "good K/D" shouldn't be contradictory. In CoW1.0 there is always only one "right" decision that will make you achieve both goals and that should be kept up.
      Now doctrines make this issue worse.

      I therefore suggest the following changes to K/D:
      * Each unit has an attribute "military points". This is already the case, only these aren't displayed anywhere. They from now on should be displayed in the unit detail view. No need to sacrifice space for it - could be for example behind the unit name like this:

      (with a tooltip saying "military points" when hovering over it).
      * K/D should be changed from
      "number of units killed (against human players)" / "number of units lost (against human players)"
      to
      "number of military points gained (against human players)" / "number of military points other (human) players gained by killing your units".
      * Units from Comintern doctrine should have slightly less military points than Allies or PanAsian ones. While Axis units should have the most.
      * Military points should increase a bit with researching higher levels.

      These changes would allow players to make their doctrine, research and build choices irrespective of whether they rather care about victory or rather about K/D. And it could be used in a new ranking - see --> this proposal <--.
      Nice suggestion. Still its not the highest prio for us. We don't balance the game for K/D fetishists :D While I would certainly like to change the system, it would require us diving into our statistics system and that system is pretty fragile (as you may have noticed in the past) and our devs try to avoid it. Since the benefit is rather small and the risk is big I am afraid it will be rather low on our backlog.

      VIRVCOBRV wrote:

      Torpedo28000 wrote:

      The doctrine bonus is for the specific for the terrain bonus a unit gets. So for example armour has +50% bonus in plains. With Pan Asian doctrine it becomes +75% bonus in plains. I believe in 1.5 every unit or majority of units now have bonuses for different terrains.
      Ok but do all units receive the terrain bonus ? Because some units such as AT cannons don't have an inherent terrain bonus, so which bonus do they then receive ? None ?Also, pan-asian light tanks receive a bonus of 15% against infantry. Do these boni stack ? Aka if a pan-asian LT fight infantry on Plains terrain, does it have a 50% + 25% + 15% = 90% bonus ?

      If so, I am SO playing that doctrine lol
      All land units in CoW1.5 have 1 or 2 terrain bonuses. The +25% terrain bonus of Pan-Asian means that they get +25% added to the terrains they are already profecient in (before individual unit buffs are added). So an Anti tank will get additional bonus in cities and Hills/Forests, as that's where it has profeciency in. In the right terrain this makes Pan-Asian units certainly strong, but its also more situational than a general strength increase.

      The bonuses of the Doctrines stack. So after the general Doctrine buff is added, the specific unit buff is added as well. If an Axis unit for example receives +10% more damage, this will be added up with the +15% more damage from the general doctrine buff, resulting in a +25% damage buff for that unit. If a pan-asian unit receives a buff of +10% Hitpoints, it cancels out the general debuff of -10% Hitpoints.

      Dacius I wrote:


      • I hope The country flag changed if we change the doctrines

      You cannot change your Doctrine after you selected a country. You have to start a new game round if you want to play another Doctrine.

    • freezy wrote:

      Nice suggestion. Still its not the highest prio for us. We don't balance the game for K/D fetishists While I would certainly like to change the system, it would require us diving into our statistics system and that system is pretty fragile (as you may have noticed in the past) and our devs try to avoid it. Since the benefit is rather small and the risk is big I am afraid it will be rather low on our backlog.
      I think that is a good answer to this. However, I do wish to link this thread in as I think it fits in well with the KD /rankings idea of the last few posts. I only just saw it and am very intrigued by the idea a player has developed. While KD is a small part of the stat. The ranking in general is a larger picture one and perhaps is more worth the time developing as the benefit is all rank and not just KD?
      I would also like the thoughts of players in this threat if they have not seen it.

      forum.callofwar.com/index.php?…&postID=205069#post205163
      Torpedo28000
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

    • Is anyone else concerned about the update?

      I really like the game as it is, I've been playing for years but just recently lost my old account. I'm not totally convinced that the Doctrines update is going to make the gameplay better or any more interesting. I'm actually worried it may degrade the quality and enjoyment of gameplay. I appreciate the time and energy the devs take into creating more content and keeping the game enjoyable, but if it ain't broke don't fix it in my opinion.

      I'll give the update a chance but my question is, if the Doctrines update is not well received and begins to receive bad feedback will the Doctrines update be recalled/removed?

      I'm just really concerned one of my favorite games is about to drastically change, and it may not be a good change.