Pinned In Ver. 1.5 or later, no matter how many units are stacked, is only 15 units reflected in battle?

    • freezy wrote:

      szinisa wrote:

      could we have a case study about how the new SBDE will be working?

      I have different type of units stacked together. Enemy has similiarinfantry, light armored, heavy armored units...

      We both attacking each other. Which units attackin/defensive value will be used?

      Question 2: how the calculated damage is allocated to unit groups and to units?
      For every damage category (for example attacking vs. unarmored, defending vs. unarmored, attacking vs. light armored, defending vs. light armored etc.) the 10 strongest values within the army will be used.
      So if you stack up 15 tank destroyers only the 10 same values will be used for all damage categories and you waste damage potential of 5 whole units.

      But if you mix 10 tank destroyers together with 10 anti air, then you don't lose as much damage potential because the units excel in different damage categories. Of course your army would still do less damage than 2 separate armies because against tanks the damage values of the AA would not be used and against air the damage values of the tank destroyers would not be used, but such an army is also protected a bit more due to the higher HP pool.

      So there will be options and optimization potential for players to find the right sweet spot and the right combinations.
      maybe i am not smart enough, but your explanation helped me not too much...

      I have 9 AA, units, 11 infantry, 5 AC, 8 MT, oppoenent has 8 infantry, 12 AC, 12 MT i am attacking and defending in the same time what theoratical damage can we expect? / all units on lvl1 for simplify the problem.
    • Ryan04px2025 wrote:

      I am wondering if AI will get units in a large stack the goes over SBDE or are they coded not to do so.
      Teaching the AI how to use the new mechanics will likely be done later as the mechanics are finalized.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • Citizenkane wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      f118 wrote:

      hm... if i see it right, we will have big troubles with 10er stack smarming taktiks now...
      Each 10er stack of own armour category on same attack way, with same speed and same time, would kill everything.
      Potentially megastack would defend each attack only with 10 units. And every defencive damage would be splitted by all attacking stacks. That mean attacker never receive 100% damage, but deffer does.
      That can be done already in CoW1.0, just with different unit numbers. Both versions use the same mechanics how damage for multiple attackers and multiple defenders is allocated. I know we have some issues there. Changing this goes very deep, we may do it some time in the future.
      Question is my stack is over the limit do the hit points still factor in. I understand what your saying about damage, so that not my question. If I have 15 tac bombers and the limit for damage is 10 is that also to total hitpoint. Or maybe better to ask is the hit point for 15 tac bombers the same as 10 bombers? Also if I have over the limit can the planes not within the 10 stack number be damaged?
      Hitpoints are not affected by the stack limit, similar to how it currently works.

      szinisa wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      szinisa wrote:

      could we have a case study about how the new SBDE will be working?

      I have different type of units stacked together. Enemy has similiarinfantry, light armored, heavy armored units...

      We both attacking each other. Which units attackin/defensive value will be used?

      Question 2: how the calculated damage is allocated to unit groups and to units?
      For every damage category (for example attacking vs. unarmored, defending vs. unarmored, attacking vs. light armored, defending vs. light armored etc.) the 10 strongest values within the army will be used.So if you stack up 15 tank destroyers only the 10 same values will be used for all damage categories and you waste damage potential of 5 whole units.

      But if you mix 10 tank destroyers together with 10 anti air, then you don't lose as much damage potential because the units excel in different damage categories. Of course your army would still do less damage than 2 separate armies because against tanks the damage values of the AA would not be used and against air the damage values of the tank destroyers would not be used, but such an army is also protected a bit more due to the higher HP pool.

      So there will be options and optimization potential for players to find the right sweet spot and the right combinations.
      maybe i am not smart enough, but your explanation helped me not too much...
      I have 9 AA, units, 11 infantry, 5 AC, 8 MT, oppoenent has 8 infantry, 12 AC, 12 MT i am attacking and defending in the same time what theoratical damage can we expect? / all units on lvl1 for simplify the problem.
      In the future there will be a new damage tooltip which tells you exactly how much damage your army is doing vs. which armor class in attacking and defending mode, and how high your efficiency is in each category. That should answer all your questions.

      For now, until we have this functionality, you should really think off it like I explained:
      Each unit does a certain amount of damage vs. unarmored units or armored units or air units etc. and this also is dependent on if the unit is attacking or defending. Those values you can see in the unit details panel. Now imagine you have multiple different units in your army. You now take the 10 best values for each of these damage categories and that is the army's damage output vs. that category.

      So in your example it could look like this probably (I dont have the exact numbers in my head so this is just an example):
      defending vs. unarmored: the values of 10 Infantrys are used
      defending vs. light armored: the values of 8 MTs and 2 Infantrys are used
      defending vs. heavy armored: The values if 8 MTs and 2 AAs are used
      defending vs. air: The values of 8 AA and 2 Inf are used

      Another example:
      You have 7 Anti Airs and 6 Infs and 5 Tanks in your stack and you are attacked by Air units. Your army will use the anti air values of the 7 anti air (since it is the highest) as well as the anti air values of 3 Inf (since it is the second highest) to defend. But vs. ground targets on the other hand your army would use the values of 5 tanks and of 5 infantry, because those are the highest values in those categories.

      Hope this is understandable.

      How the damage is then distributed within the enemy army is dependent on the enemy army's composition. Because even if your army can deal 100 damage vs. unarmored and 100 damage vs heavy armored does not mean that it will deal out 200 damage in total, it is more likely to be an average of all these values. It depends on how many units of each class are present in the enemy army.
      For example if the enemy army consists of 8 heavy tanks and 2 inf, then it would receive 80% heavy armor damage from your army and 20% unarmored damage. Meaning it would receive 80 heavy armor damage and 20 unarmored damage in this example.
      If we go back to your example, then the enemy army (8 Inf, 12 AC, 12 MT) would receive 25% unarmored damage, 37,5% light armored damage and 37,5% heavy armored damage from the damage values your army puts out.
      This part about how damage is distributed within the enemy target is not changed though and already works that way in the current version (just not shown anywhere, we will also show it in the future)

      Ryan04px2025 wrote:

      I am wondering if AI will get units in a large stack the goes over SBDE or are they coded not to do so.
      AI doesnt care :P It also doesn't care for current SBDE. But usually they dont stack too high.
      Maybe will be tweaked in a future update.
    • freezy wrote:

      Ryan04px2025 wrote:

      I am wondering if AI will get units in a large stack the goes over SBDE or are they coded not to do so.
      AI doesnt care :P It also doesn't care for current SBDE. But usually they dont stack too high.Maybe will be tweaked in a future update.
      Oh, then i won't mind. I am curious how you program the AI. ;)
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    • I think they picked 4 people or so at Bytro and studied their gameplay tactics, and designed the AI to replicate that. ;)
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
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      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • New

      Lmao. Only VorlonFCW could say such a thing about the AI with a straight face. Oh but I see a wry smiling emoji - my mistake.

      lol

      Seriously though, this is a very important thread and I would respectfully ask that it be pinned in the appropriate location and as well a link to it be placed in the newly written 1.5 section of the Manual.

      This is by far the most in-depth and detailed discussion yet that I’ve seen in the forum regarding this topic and I appreciate everyone’s effort to shed this much needed clarity on the subject.

      wb
      wb
    • New

      I’ll pin this for now, Long term goal is a single thread/guide about all the intricate combat mechanics.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • New

      <p>does anyone know the value of the troops' condition that the units begin to die?</p><pre>in 1.0 the account was ((x-1) * x) * 100), x is the number of troops, and the result of the account was the percentage that allowed a unit to die, and the survivors returned to 100% health.

      on this new update, i realized that the units start to die due to the amount of life that each one has personally. for example, if I have 4 level 1 infantry, each one has 15 hp, 15 * 4 = 60, then in the pile I have this whole life, from the moment it takes damage, the minimum that each unit must have in life is 50%, that is 7.5 life, is distributed equally, and when a unit is without her life (7.5) it dies.

      someone tell me if i am correct?</pre>