Food Issues on the 100 player map

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  • xswazse12 wrote:

    I am sorry for you man, that sucks.


    Is it possible that the gold abuser is the reason for your food shortages being crippling?

    You mentioned having a comfortable lead in military strength. Might normal conditions have allowed for a better expansion?
    No, the gold abuser had nothing to do with the food. My food situation started going towards the negative after I conquered 3 countries in 3 days. At that point in time i was sitting at about 220 VP. At that point in time i started investing in food because i could see how bad things would get. By 600 VP, civilians were consuming more than i could produce. (around 9,000 food per day deficit. I was bouncing between negative 380 and negative 420 food per hour)
  • Let's do some math.

    At 600 VP, my citizens consumed 34000 food per day.
    My Core produced about 10,000 food per day.
    My other provinces produced aprox. 25k food per day.


    My citizens consume 56.67 food per VP per day.
    3300 VP = 187,00 food per day consumed by citizens.

    My core produced, at full potential, around 10k food per day.
    My 550 conquered VP produced approx 25k per day.

    That means each conquered VP equates to 45.5 food per day in production.

    Each conquered VP = a net loss of 11 food per day.


    That means at 1,000 VP, you would be losing about 10,000 food per day to citizen consumption.
    At 2,000 VP, you would be losing about 20,000 food per day to citizen consumption.
    At 3,000, 30k per day.
    At 3300, 36,300 food per day in the hole.

    The problem here, or course, is that these figures IGNORE all food used to feed your military.

    I had 100 air craft, 100 ground units, and 8 submarines. They consumed 10,000 food per day.
    To conquer the world, my military would have needed to continue to grow in order to compete with the other large players in the world.

    Through working the marketplace, and by investing conquered resources into food reserves, I was able to maintain a constant stockpile between 90,000 and 100,000 food at all times. At this stage in the game, food was scarce on the market already. This 100k surplus in stock allowed me to maintain a safety net of approx 10 days.

    HOWEVER, as people continued to die on the map, less and less food is available to purchase. And the food that was available continued to grow in price.

    By end game, let's assume 5 countries are alive: Asia, Africa, Europe, North America, and South America.

    Which of these countries, who all hold about 750 VPs, is going to be selling food exactly? They will each be I would guess about 15k food in the negative EACH DAY.


    Conquered countries, when their production is maximized, need to be out producing their civilian consumption by a large enough margin to allow an army to be fed. I would think that a significant reduction in consumption is required to make this possible.



    Feel free to comment with the numbers you have experienced... but I think the logical conclusion I am pointing out (there isnt enough food in the world as countries are eliminated and the market becomes empty) will effect every single game that doesnt end in a massive early victory for one player.
  • Most of this recent content belongs in a gold abuse/discussion thread , but back to FOOD SHORTAGES:

    I agree that it depends on starting locations, and too this end the disparagee you can find between the americas , Europe , Africa and Asia.

    Due to the geography , the Americas are isolated. It would seem allowing more food provinces (At least one extra in Michigan , Canada and maybe 2 in N/S America and Cuba would be appropriate.. even another in Peurto Rico and say st kits, bahamas and the other islands having one collectively being fair enough to give an extra in each of the other continents (europe asia mid east and africa).

    You could also have troops consume small amounts of fuel , all forces consume goods (replacement parts munitions and living) in addition to food maintenance.. just thoughts here.
    Remember: wherever you go , there you are.
  • I don't understand why so many people don't understand the clearly stated problem. As geographic expansion continues, your food production will not be able to maintain the food consumpion of your civillians alone... That's with totally ignoring any military expenses.

    Lowering the food consumption of infantery doesn't affect this situation at all (since infantery belong to the military and not civillians...) and therefor will not help. Adding like 2 random food provinces in the america's doesn't undermine the underlying problem neither... So how does it fix it? Please give your arguments and calculations, because non of you have and wenn you do (asuming they are correct), you will see it won't solve the problem.

    It actually barely has anything to do with what piece of the world you start in. For example, Germany has worse food production that most of the american states and is not located in the america's...

    Basing your facts on a 200VP country doesn't count as a representative example. I estimate problems will start emerging from 300VP or more, depending on how much food your core provinces can produce.
  • Bystander wrote:

    Right and so if in addition to the additional food provinces , all provinces (if recovered from war) produced a small net positive amount per my previous post as well , then this would be mitigated somewhat?
    It would if they do. Or if the consumption of food in the non-core provinces would decrease with 75% as well like someone mentioned (not really realistic, but I think this is very easy to implement for the designers). Or my suggestion (will take some work).

    Noblepeasant also had a suggestion, but it's just a random number that he took and that one I fear is too low (although it seems quite high).
  • Bystander wrote:

    Right and so if in addition to the additional food provinces , all provinces (if recovered from war) produced a small net positive amount per my previous post as well , then this would be mitigated somewhat?
    The problem is that, even after the provinces have recovered from war, and you have build infastructure on them.. t hey are still losing food.
  • noblepeasant wrote:

    _Pontus_ wrote:

    noblepeasant wrote:

    I quit at 600 VP because of an abusive gold user.
    With 600VP in the pocket and so many more provinces and thus a well developped economy, you should be able to beat any goldspammer on your own ;) Now at 140 provs and have 3rd largest army on 100map....and not a trace of moral issues nor food problems yet, while 90% of my grain provs are not even developed beyond lvl1 roads (and not even all of them)

    On another (22player) map I have 248 provinces from North Africa to the North Pole and going into Florida, without a trace of a food issue and (after having moved my capital) only fortresses built in North Africa, again getting all my provs up to 99 or 100%
    I dont think you understand what I mean by an abusive gold user.
    In 6 days he went from inactive to 14% of the worlds military might (while i was previously in first place at 8% with a comfortable margin). Each province he took he simply purchased level 5 forts + all other buildings. He purchased every single research upgrade available. And he was actively deleting air bases out from underneath me.

    He used gold to reveal troop locations, and started posting this information in the newspaper.

    I had 8 subs in the water between alaska and russia. When it became obvious he was massing troops to invade, i started sinking convoys. In response, he build a level 5 IC, a level 3 air base, a level 3 fort, naval base, 25 naval bombers, and about 20 ships to kill my subs.

    When he saw that I had an airforce, he rushed 35 fighters and 30ish AAs, all max research level in addition to the rest of his army.

    While i controlled basically all of north america, fringe provinces (alaska) were simply lined with air bases to allow connectivity for my airforce to bomb landing zones. I denied the first round of landings.... So he started deleted airbases out form underneath me.. my 55 TACS and 35 INTs are now worthless.. it's an 8-9 hour march backwards to the next air base.... which he then deletes.



    Now his landing in alaska is uncontested, and he can continue to spam forts and units. Continued gold use like this will defeat any non-gold user's army regardless of the size.
    Im sorry about what happened, sounds like you were playing with good tactics then somebody ruined yout game



    If Socialists understood Economics, they wouldn't be socialists
    -Friedrich von Haye


  • Found a bug while discussing with Glorpian

    Destroyed level one baracks still consume 200 food every day even though the guide says that they are disabled.

    A non-core province with a lvl one destroyed baracks use 200 grain more than an equal sized non-core province.

    Will repair the baracks and disable them and see if my production changes tomorrow.
    Sincerely, wildL
    EN Mod
    Report a problem

  • @ Gold (ab)use: Wow, that gold (ab)user is worth a ton for Bytro, but it sucks he ruined the game. But most of all, I don't see how he can get any satisfaction out of winning like that?

    @Food issues: Are we talking a situation with fully developed grain provinces in your case? Because, yes, if you don't invest timely in your food production, problems are evidently there. But that is part of the management of your empire.
    BTW, starting to have moral issues now, with provinces not going 70%, but that still yields more food than it costs, especially if well developed. In short, not having food issues and never had (except 1 or 2 of my first games)
  • My army (100 planes, 100 ground units on day 20) consumed about 10k food per day.
    My civilians (600 VP) consumed 34k.

    I produced 35k per day.

    I had ICs upgradning on core food provinces with infastructure maxed, ICs building on all double food provinces (infastructure maxed) and infastructure at various levels of upgrade on each food province in north america.
  • noblepeasant wrote:

    My army (100 planes, 100 ground units on day 20) consumed about 10k food per day.
    My civilians (600 VP) consumed 34k.

    I produced 35k per day.

    I had ICs upgradning on core food provinces with infastructure maxed, ICs building on all double food provinces (infastructure maxed) and infastructure at various levels of upgrade on each food province in north america.

    What country were you?
    Sincerely, wildL
    EN Mod
    Report a problem

  • _Pontus_ wrote:


    BTW, starting to have moral issues now, with provinces not going 70%, but that still yields more food than it costs, especially if well developed. In short, not having food issues and never had (except 1 or 2 of my first games)
    thefreedictionary.com/province
    thefreedictionary.com/country

    You are mistaking province and country. If you use the correct definition of a country, there is no way non-core provinces with 70% morale can produce enough food for all the provinces that originally belonged to that country.