1.5 research and upgrade cost

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  • 1.5 research and upgrade cost

    ok we need to talk about the research and upgrade costs in 1.5. you are forced now to pay a research fee then pay again for an upgrade cost which is too costly. you spend half the game either doing research or upgrading and usually most players abandon the research to pour lower level units onto the board. it takes the fun out of the old research style. also you have to ugrade every individual unit. this creates a logjam mess of different levels of the same unit on the map. once you get to around 200 units plus it becomes a tedious bore and grind to find every unit on the map and get them upgraded which is no fun. this erases the tactics of getting a unit upgraded to use on the battlefield. i found that you cant enjoy the upgraded unit skins cause you spend half the game only producing low level units and once resources arent an issue your building end game units so you miss all the development you get to see in 1.0 games. we should keep the old research style that makes the game fun. not everything needs to change. i love most of the changes in 1.5 but the research is broken to me and im a game designer in real life. lets keep the tactics and being able to enjoy the early and mid game skin changes on all units instead of this grind and tedious double cost research upgrade system
    :thumbup:
  • You don't have to upgrade all the units.

    With the axis doctrine I don't bother with researching to high levels cause you won't be able to produce them anyway due to manpower shortages.

    With allies research and upgrade costs are cheaper so I find them affordable. Only upgrade your important units. I usually use a massive amount of bombers as allies so I upgrade them often. You don't have to upgrade all the units,

    Comitern since there is less upkeep you have lots of resources and manpower left for you to upgrade units with. Also comintern has advantages on heavy units like heavy tank and SP rocket art. so you won't be able to produce many units...so you won't have to upgrade much.

    Idk about pan-asian the only time I played it I was conquered quickly.
  • RiverWolf74 wrote:

    Danieliyoverde123 wrote:

    i usually dont upgrade units unless they are too outdated or i can afford the upgrades, upgrading the units is a strategic decision rather than a gameplay limitation
    for allies you should research and upgrade units. Or else you are wasting 3 of your 4 advantages, research time reduction, research cost reduction, and upgrade time reduction.
    of course upgrading units is the speciality of allies
    "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"
  • blackdragon77 wrote:

    you are forced now to pay a research fee then pay again for an upgrade cost which is too costly
    You are not forced to do so. And how do you mean "too costly"? Too costly to be an easy decision? That's right, if it was cheaper, the decision to always upgrade your units would be very clear. With upgrade costs as they are in 1.5, you have to think hard which units you want to upgrade when and whether you want to continue researching higher levels of a unit you already started producing or rather research level 1 of a new unit. Both these aspects are perfectly fine for a strategy game.
    Also more realistic. Reduced upgrade costs would make the game very much like CoW1.0, where a clumsy WW1 tank magically mutated into a brand new Sherman within the blink of an eye, for free, just like that. Things like that happen in that lovely Hollywood movie "Transformers", but for sure not in reality. Secondly, due to the free upgrades, CoW1.0 armies consisted of only very few different units, which made researching & tactics very boring / foreseeable and which - again - didn't reflect reality at all.


    blackdragon77 wrote:

    most players abandon the research to pour lower level units onto the board
    That's why most players lose ;) . A good player produces low level units only when needed urgently and instead puts high prio on keeping his research going. Afterwards skips several levels upgrading his old units and only then starts mass producing units (i.e. high level units, mostly). Of course that's not always the winning approach, but most times - at least on tall maps. Having in mind that this strategy requires patience, planning and often diplomatic skills to keep yourself out of a fierce war in early game - and thus isn't something everyone can go for easily - I'd call this perfectly balanced.


    blackdragon77 wrote:

    this creates a logjam mess of different levels of the same unit on the map.
    Yes. What's the problem with that?


    blackdragon77 wrote:

    once you get to around 200 units plus it becomes a tedious bore and grind to find every unit on the map and get them upgraded
    OK there's some truth in that. There might be convenience functions like a way to select all units of one type and a specific level and then clicking the "upgrade" button (which should then split them automatically out of their stacks). But I don't see a big problem with spending some time upgrading. To me it doesn't feel tedious, but is a nice and always new decision for each unit individually whether I want to upgrade it now, later or not at all. I like going through my stacks thinking about that in moments without action at the front. So I'd give functionality to simplify upgrades very low priority.


    blackdragon77 wrote:

    i found that you cant enjoy the upgraded unit skins cause you spend half the game only producing low level units
    I found you can enjoy the different skins for higher level units even more because it's not easy to get them on the board. And because it's not self-evident that every unit has the modernized appearance after a while. In CoW1.5 as it is now, the few high level units you manage to build stand out strikingly amongst the mass of low level units around them. That's beautiful, isn't it?


    blackdragon77 wrote:

    i love most of the changes in 1.5 but the research is broken to me
    Oh I would say the opposite. There are a lot of things you can criticize about CoW1.5 but not that upgrades come at a noteworthy cost. That invention is the best about CoW1.5!


    blackdragon77 wrote:

    im a game designer in real life
    Of which game if I may ask? Candy Crush, maybe?
    Sorry, this was below the belt; couldn't resist.

    Oh and one last thing: Please don't post general thoughts on CoW1.5 in the FP section of the forum, but in one of the CoW1.5 threads in the News section (where, by the way, your ideas have already been discussed several times); thank you.