Version 1.5 and Armored Cars

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    • Version 1.5 and Armored Cars

      The Armored Cars are way over powered. case in point i had 12 lvl 5 tac bombers, 3 lvl 3bombers(can't recall what their name is) and 10 lvl 5 fighters against 5 lvl 5 armored cars and it took over 2 hours and i lost about 6 territories to finally kill them and they decimated my airforce.

      If you play 1.5, just build a ton of them and level them up b/c Anti tank doesn't stop them, ground units are mince meat to them, and unless they run into a Heavy tank they roll through medium tanks that are a couple levels lower (like a 3)

      just my observation you can keep it as it is, but if i ever play 1.5 again that's what im doing b/c i saw how easy it was to crush me.

      GJ to the individual that figured this out (Btw he took on 4 different countries with over 100 bombers and wiped me out...the 5th largest country.

    • Armored cars are very weak against other tanks in fact, also they are a defense unit, same as antitanks, if you attack with antitanks against armored cars you will lose (maybe not if you attack on city or forest), same happen if you attack an antitank with an armored car.

      Now against air units they are not that great, obvious you will lose some territories since armored cars are infiltration units but if you have a decent defence they shouldn't do to much.
      "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"

    • Well then I don't know what to tell you about the game i was playing b/c he sent out stacks of 5 Armored cars, and 20 planes took forever to kill em, and the anti tank's were not effective (too slow to get anywhere) and where he did run into them he wiped out my anti-tank...
      and Medium tanks got rolled..now his armored cars were lvl 5 and medium tanks were level 2...but that being said, my planes were all level 5 or 6...and they were ineffective


      Im tellin ya, roll out stacks of 5 Level 5 cars and in version 1.5 and they steam roll the map b/c they're so fast and planes can't take em out.

    • again with a good defence they shouldnt do to much, if you make a line of infantry with antitanks, maybe a few light tanks, tank destroyers or just your own armored since they are better defending than attacking, enemy armored cars cant pass trought this.
      also they were on high level so its complete reasonable what they did, in fact just 6 territories its few to compensate the cost of armored cars, so i see you got a preety good trade here
      "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"

    • No, Raptor has got a point. This isn't just about tactics.

      It starts already at level 2 which you can easily reach in the starting game. The increase in damage and health is out of proportion with the cost and with the increase in effectiveness of other units at the same level 1 to 2.

      You also have to consider their speed. As you say, it's an infiltration unit, which is OK. But the high mobility should come at a cost and it isn't offset enough.

      There is a balancing issue with scout cars.

    • Hmmm you made me rethink about this, Im a fan of using a lot of armored cars, I know their weaknesses and how to counter them but I have to admit on a production level and more strategic warfare they are quite strong. since their are cheap enought and only need 5 levels in comparation to infantry who need 7 for get the same damage values.


      Now I'm recapacitating, Yes, maybe they probably need a nerf since they are the only unit you need in order to successfully got in to the enemy base and hit their economy, since they have more air defence than light tanks and motorized, and their attack values are quite effective if you use them as a spearhead.


      Maybe they only need to reduce their attack values but no the defence one in order to made them: "a good option" and not a "must have" unit.

      Or maybe even reduce their damage against light and hvy armor overall. Bcuz it's true that I don't need motorized infantry or light to successfully hit the enemy backyard, nerfing their attack will incentivate the use of motorized or light tanks and give to the armored car a special rol of the anti air unit of fast attack groups.



      But this should be taken carefully or can derivate into the infiltration technique become inefficient and not just another strategy. also nerfing armored cars its a indirect nerf to pan-asian so it's complicated
      "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"

    • Cloudpop2 wrote:

      Tactical bombers are uneffective with armored cars. try using attack bombers.
      I thought the same thing.

      I just played a map with an Axis coalition member that did not use light tanks because he instead used armoured cars.
      Seemed to work quite well for him, they do around the same damage to unarmored as light tanks and are not far off from damage against heavy armour. Only thing the don't have a lot of is attack against light armour. And then, their defence is even higher than their attack.

      I also noticed that they have the same HP on every level as light tanks. But, while having the same HP the armoured car is much faster. In 1.0 they had the same HP as infantry, just a different armour class. I think a reasonable nerf would be to lower their HP and give them fewer damage than light tanks. Maybe their defensive stats could be around the same as light tanks on the offensive and vice versa. That way one would be defensive (armoured car) and be used for scouting and land grab while the light tank would be favoured for attack.

      So yes, I could very well see how the armoured car is becoming competitive with the light tank.

    • Cloudpop, I apologize, that's what I had 10 fighters, 10 Attack Bombers, and 3 Tactical (personally ive yet to undersatnd why you would get Tactical vs attack but i built 3 to test)

      I want to mention one more thing that I forgot to say
      the Armored vehicle had an 10.5 (at level 5 ) anti air ability
      and attack bombers have a 15.0 (at highest level) vs Armored Vehicles

    • Edepedable wrote:

      Cloudpop2 wrote:

      Tactical bombers are uneffective with armored cars. try using attack bombers.
      I thought the same thing.

      I think a reasonable nerf would be to lower their HP and give them fewer damage than light tanks. Maybe their defensive stats could be around the same as light tanks on the offensive and vice versa. That way one would be defensive (armoured car) and be used for scouting and land grab while the light tank would be favoured for attack.



      Agree with this. My thoughts exactly.

    • xRaptorZx wrote:

      Cloudpop, I apologize, that's what I had 10 fighters, 10 Attack Bombers, and 3 Tactical (personally ive yet to undersatnd why you would get Tactical vs attack but i built 3 to test)

      I want to mention one more thing that I forgot to say
      the Armored vehicle had an 10.5 (at level 5 ) anti air ability
      and attack bombers have a 15.0 (at highest level) vs Armored Vehicles
      lvl.5 armored cars are really fast, so probably your planes bombed and damaged the armored cars, then went to refuel for 30 min. While refueling, the armored cars would probably be able to travel 6 provinces. After refuelling, your planes would bomb again and destroy the stack. Every time you attack, the ACs would also do some damage back to your planes, which is why your airforce was damaged.

    • Cloudpop2 wrote:

      xRaptorZx wrote:

      At this level, I would hope no one's doing direct attacks, and they know to patrol due to the time that it takes to attack and return.
      Patrol does much less damage in 1.5. Attack is better, especially when attacking fast units since they will move out of the patrol circle soon.
      admittedly Im testing, but I don't see the difference, i never leave a patrol and log off, I move with them...but i will take your thoughts into account, the problem really is though with a situation like that, it's not the brightest thing to attack ...b/c then it's like 7 minutes to refuel and with several stacks running mad across the map you'll be overwhelmed and perhaps get caught on the tarmac..

      it still does not change the fact that a SCOUT vehicle hit's planes at 10.5 and Attack planes are 15.0...

      There's a reason the adage goes Own the Skies Own the Ground.....not Own the fast scout cars on the ground control the skies LOL

      just need to reduce the AA ability of the scouts.

    • xRaptorZx wrote:

      admittedly Im testing, but I don't see the difference, i never leave a patrol and log off, I move with them...but i will take your thoughts into account, the problem really is though with a situation like that, it's not the brightest thing to attack ...b/c then it's like 7 minutes to refuel and with several stacks running mad across the map you'll be overwhelmed and perhaps get caught on the tarmac..
      it still does not change the fact that a SCOUT vehicle hit's planes at 10.5 and Attack planes are 15.0...

      There's a reason the adage goes Own the Skies Own the Ground.....not Own the fast scout cars on the ground control the skies LOL

      just need to reduce the AA ability of the scouts.
      If you reduce their AA ability there will no left a AA fast unit, so running into enemy base will be no longer cost-effective

      i think you are expecting to shoot down armored cars with bombers without having losses, i rlly disagree with you on this, bombers can still be cost effective against cars, unless you leave unprotected your air bases so i dont see a reason to nerf their AA capabilities.

      again my reason to admit they are kinda too good its because they are too versatile, require low resources and industries, only requiere 5 level and using them as a spear head they become a really good attacking unit for their cost, so instead of diverse my efforts on research and produce a variety of unit i can focus on just spam and upgrade more armored cars. but into battlefield itself they are not that great
      "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"

    • I just had another look at them as I just started a map playing Axis. It really does seem there is no real reason for me to build light tanks. I actually just finished a world map as soviet (I won with my coalition) where I also did not develop and use light tanks in favour of using medium tanks. This thread made me realise why.

      Armoured car lvl1
      HP 23 (Axis)
      Attack unarmored 3.5 / light armour 1.7 / heavy armour 1.2
      Defence unarmored 5.3 / light armour 2.5 / heavy armour 1.8 /air 1.8

      light tank lvl 1
      HP 23 (Axis)
      Attack unarmored 3.1 / light armour 4.6 / heavy armour 1.7
      Defence unarmored 2.1 / light armour 3.1 / heavy armour 1.1 /air 0.7

      Since I just started and I know my neighbours to have mainly infantry I will not be building light tanks. Armoured cars make for better defenders AND attackers against infantry. And since they have the same HP I do not need light tanks for anything, I will skip them and go directly to medium tanks which have more HP, better armour class and more damage against all three than armoured car (not air on defence).

      I will only be building light tanks if for whatever reason my neighbours build an unreasonable amount of armoured cars and even then, I'd rather use anti-tank until I can use mediums on the offence (in Axis doctrine medium tanks can be researched on day 2).

      When seen like this the armoured car is more like an 'anti infantry' assault unit than the light tank is and the light tank is more like an 'anti-armoured car' assault unit. At the start of the map it really is the only thing it is better at than other units in the early game. It also has less utility because of its lower speed and as was mentioned before, armoured cars defence against air is more than double that of light tanks.

      At the moment I would say that the armoured car outperforms the light tank in so many aspects, that there is no reason to build light tanks at all. Not even in the Pan-Asian doctrine where light tanks get a buff because armoured cars get an even greater buff.

    • xRaptorZx wrote:

      Cloudpop2 wrote:

      xRaptorZx wrote:

      At this level, I would hope no one's doing direct attacks, and they know to patrol due to the time that it takes to attack and return.
      Patrol does much less damage in 1.5. Attack is better, especially when attacking fast units since they will move out of the patrol circle soon.
      admittedly Im testing, but I don't see the difference, i never leave a patrol and log off, I move with them...but i will take your thoughts into account, the problem really is though with a situation like that, it's not the brightest thing to attack ...b/c then it's like 7 minutes to refuel and with several stacks running mad across the map you'll be overwhelmed and perhaps get caught on the tarmac..
      it still does not change the fact that a SCOUT vehicle hit's planes at 10.5 and Attack planes are 15.0...

      There's a reason the adage goes Own the Skies Own the Ground.....not Own the fast scout cars on the ground control the skies LOL

      just need to reduce the AA ability of the scouts.
      You can build higher level air bases and airfields to reduce refuelling times.

    • Edepedable wrote:

      I just had another look at them as I just started a map playing Axis. It really does seem there is no real reason for me to build light tanks. I actually just finished a world map as soviet (I won with my coalition) where I also did not develop and use light tanks in favour of using medium tanks.
      light tanks and medium tanks perform the same rol for different strategies and techniques, if you go for one of them you should forget the other.
      There are some differences between price and speed, different armors type, production and investigation cost to take in consideration.
      I don't think the light tank is useless, they are ok, probably for the axis don't worth bcuz they have bonus on medium tanks, and for the panasian it's a "must" go unit.
      "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"