Naval Combat Adjustments (Hidden Destroyer Change!)

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    • Naval Combat Adjustments (Hidden Destroyer Change!)

      So in the new update today the developers stated how Destroyers can kill submarines easily because of their attack range and high speed, which is very true, however, to "fix" this issue they decided to

      -Remove the destroyer's attack range

      Sure, you have to fight the submarines directly now using them, so your destroyers will take some damage, However, they also decided to;

      -Reduce the building, upkeep and research costs for destroyers

      -Increase the destroyers damage against submarines

      -Increase the destroyers view range on the map

      (For submarines)

      -Decrease the hit points of submarines

      -Increase the building costs, research costs, and upkeep costs

      Remember, these changes were made because it was "too easy" for destroyers to kill submarines. I'm not quite sure what they were thinking when these changes were made. Destroyers will now be easier than ever to spam, especially for the allies doctrine which already has destroyers that do extra damage to submarines, as well as decrease their production time and research costs further. They increased the destroyers damage to submarines and reduced the hit points of submarines, making it easier than ever to kill submarines in less hits. They also made the destroyers have an increased view range on the map, so they will be able to reveal your subs from farther away, and you won't have time to get your submarines out of the area because the destroyers are still incredibly fast and do even more damage than ever against the now weakened submarines. Not to mention that submarines now cost more to produce, and when they do, they get killed faster. To do some rough testing and to see what the numbers looked like, I joined a new round as a country with the Allies doctrine (as they have buffed submarines) and as a country as the Axis doctrine (as their submarines are buffed). I will also include information from before the update, so the changes can be properly documented. They also gave the Destroyers a small hit point boost, which was stated nowhere in the Balance changes (images below)

      Note : The stats below are for Destroyers level 5 and submarines level 5, as they are the highest levels that most players will be able to get, as many people (including myself) do not have the blueprints for the elite level of each unit

      Before the changes;

      SUBMARINES

      A stack of 10 axis submarines before the changes would have had 920 hit points, and done around 280 damage to ships. They also have a speed of 102

      DESTROYERS

      A stack of 10 Allied destroyers before the update would have had 900 hit points, and done 240 damage to submarines per hit. They also had a speed of 108, so if you played it smart you could have detected submarines and been able to bombard them without taking damage, as well as be able to outrun your enemies submarines

      After the Changes;

      SUBMARINES

      After the changes, A stack of 10 Axis submarines would have 810 hit points. However they still do 280 damage to ships and keep the speed of 102

      DESTROYERS

      After the changes, A stack of 10 Allied Destroyers will do 300 damage to submarines. They also have 950 hit points, compared to the 900 they had before, which was not listed in the changes. I do not know if this was an accident or the developers tried to get sneaky with us, but it was something I noticed (I will post images below) They also keep the speed of 108.

      As you can see, it is now much easier for destroyers to kill submarines, even though the developers stated the changes were because "it was too easy for destroyers to attack submarines with their range" However because the submarines are faster and have more range, you can't even get your submarines to escape to safety because the destroyers are faster. Sure, the Destroyers will take some damage because they have lost their attack range, but they are now super deadly to submarines

      Now, for the images. You can clearly see that the doctrines for both nations is "Allies" and the level of Destroyers is the same, the "Fletcher Class" however after the changes the Destroyers have slightly more hit points than from before the changes, which was NOT included in the balance changes

      BEFORE:


      AFTER CHANGES


      As you can clearly see, the Developers gave the submarines a small health buff, as it is the same type of submarine and under the same doctrine. This was not listed in the balance changes, which I will post an image of below



      You can take this how you will but did nowhere in this post did the developers say they were changing the hit points of the destroyers. I know its a minor change, but they still did not tell us none the less.

    • Thanks for the feedback!

      With these changes it indeed became harder overall for destroyers to hunt submarines.

      Before the change 1 destroyer was able to kill an infinite amount of submarines without taking damage, due to their attack range, their ability to reveal subs and their higher speed than submarines. Even if the player who uses submarines decides to attack or flee, the destroyer can easily kite them or follow them, if the player is active. That is what we meant with it just being too easy for destroyers to farm off all lone subs in the ocean. It was near foolish beforehand to send out subs alone because they became so vulnerable to destroyers. Destroyers are indeed supposed to counter submarines. It was never intended that submarines win fights vs. Destroyers. But it was also never intended that Destroyers can farm off alot of subs without taking any damage. That is why we actually had to buff destroyers after removing their range, to ensure that destroyers are still beating submarines in the new balancing.

      With this change now we made the whole encounter much more predictable: Destroyer still counter submarines, but now they have to take damage themselves in order to defeat the subs. 1 Destroyer cannot kill 2 subs in a row, because the destroyer loses ~half its health from the battle with the first sub. The second sub will then beat the destroyer and lose half of its health in the process. Compare that to beforehand where 1 destroyer had no limit how many subs it could destroy in a row.

      The health change for destroyers was no mistake, it was just forgotten to be listed in the news.

      whowh wrote:

      Odds are the Devs will never see this post or hear about this error.
      It's Sad.
      Nah, we are actively reading the forums.