Upgrading Units Still Attacking

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    • Upgrading Units Still Attacking

      I had a battle with a player that had 8 aircraft carriers and a whole bunch of escort units. I had 20 submarines, in stacks of 10 each with move orders through the target and in opposite directions so they would have separate attack cycles. Right before my submarines attacked this carrier group: my enemy set all of the aircraft on those carriers (15 naval bombers and 10 fighters) to upgrade, a 2+ hour process when we started it. Fast forward to the battle: my enemy started splitting his forces and gave his upgrading aircraft attack orders on my submarines, to which I watched the attack orders go through. Those attacks orders, damaged my submarines with his naval bombers, those naval bombers didn't take any damage from my fighters that were patrolling over the battle (normally when enemy aircraft attack something inside your fighter patrol circle, your fighters shield some of the damage and inflict their own to the attacking aircraft), and didn't cause a refueling period for the attacking aircraft.

      I know this isn't how upgrading aircraft was supposed to be implemented. If it were, anytime your carrier was doomed from submarines and air superiority, you could just start an upgrade on the naval bombers and have them attack as if they were ships that were considered the aircraft type. I lost the battle because of this, otherwise I would have won. This is criticism/a bug report, since the concept of upgrading was not supposed to allow for the upgrading unit to be able to attack. Please fix this. Thank you

      The post was edited 1 time, last by dragonborne ().

    • Hi, thanks for the report. I forwarded this to our QA for checking it.

      Normally upgrading units should only be able to defend (and deal defensive damage), but should not be able to initiate attacks themselves, and certainly not fly around on the map while upgrading.

      A screenshot that showed the issue would have been nice, like seeing an airfcraft that has the upgrading timer on it fly around for example.

    • @freezy

      freezy wrote:

      @dragonborne

      So our QA tried to reproduce this issue and was not able to do so.

      Aircraft which are upgrading on carriers are not able to fulfill any commands and cannot fly around while upgrading.

      So can you perhaps list clear reproduction steps or maybe also show screenshot/video/gif of the issue? That would be nice! Thanks.

      Sorry for the insanely late reply. But I never stated that the upgrading aircraft in question were flying. Here's how to recreate per my situation:

      -Have 8 carriers & several escort ships (in a stack) with 15 naval bombers & 10 fighters on those carriers

      -set those naval bombers & fighters to upgrade while on the carrier

      -then have 20 submarines attack the carrier group (splitting them in two groups of 10 with seperate move orders so that they don't group up, but instead, each group of 10 attacks the carrier group independently)

      -Have a friendly (to the submarines) carrier group nearby. Have 10 fighters patrolling over the battle from that friendly carrier group

      -lastly, once the submarines engage the carrier group, give the upgrading aircraft of the enemy (specifically the naval bombers) an attack order on the submarines that are attacking the carrier group



      In my experience: The naval bombers attacked as if they were a ship but with the stats of naval bombers even while upgrading. In my situation/scenario: they did not fly nor did they refuel after the attack function went through. Long story short, the bugs you need to watch for:

      -upgrading naval bombers able to attack enemy vessels that are engaged with the carrier group said naval bombers are on

      -upgrading naval bombers that complete an attack function aren't taking damage from fighters patrolling overhead, and aren't refueling, which leads to believe they behave like ships

      The post was edited 6 times, last by dragonborne ().

    • Also late reply, but to clarify:

      When planes are upgrading they are still in their airplane armor class. Also all upgrading armies automatically defend against attacker using their defensive stats. That means if you attack an aircraft carrier that has upgrading naval bombers on it, those naval bombers will defend with their regular naval bomber defensive stats. No attack command required for that.


      If you knew about this and the actual problem is something else than this, let me know.

    • freezy wrote:

      Also late reply, but to clarify:

      When planes are upgrading they are still in their airplane armor class. Also all upgrading armies automatically defend against attacker using their defensive stats. That means if you attack an aircraft carrier that has upgrading naval bombers on it, those naval bombers will defend with their regular naval bomber defensive stats. No attack command required for that.


      If you knew about this and the actual problem is something else than this, let me know.
      That literally makes no sense because the defense stat for naval bombers doesn't have a value for everything except against planes. Did your team set up the test? You aren't understanding the things that I am saying at all. I never said they weren't aircraft armor class. But i literally, and I mean literally, watching the naval bombers not attack nor defend for 2 whole battle interactions, until the enemy player got desperate and gave the naval bombers an attack order that actually allowed them to attack, not flying, but attack as if they were an up close unit, like a destroyer. Which that attack function for the upgrading naval bombers on a carrier didn't cause a refueling cycle either. When I said they behaved as if they were ships, that did not mean that their armor class magically changed. Please, read over what I have been saying and stand to comprehend it fully. Try the tests. I know what I saw and this is an issue in the game sir

      The post was edited 1 time, last by dragonborne ().

    • dragonborne wrote:

      That literally makes no sense because the defense stat for naval bombers doesn't have a value for everything except against planes. Did your team set up the test? You aren't understanding the things that I am saying at all. I never said they weren't aircraft armor class. But i literally, and I mean literally, watching the naval bombers not attack nor defend for 2 whole battle interactions, until the enemy player got desperate and gave the naval bombers an attack order that actually allowed them to attack, not flying, but attack as if they were an up close unit, like a destroyer. Which that attack function for the upgrading naval bombers on a carrier didn't cause a refueling cycle either. When I said they behaved as if they were ships, that did not mean that their armor class magically changed. Please, read over what I have been saying and stand to comprehend it fully. Try the tests. I know what I saw and this is an issue in the game sir
      Oh perhaps this is were the confusion comes from then: Every aircraft has defensive stats vs all armor types, they are just not displayed vs. all types in the unit details interface because they are used quite rarely (like in your example). Similarly all ships and ground units have attack damage vs air units, the value is just not displayed in the unit details interface. As for naval bombers: Their offensive stats are 100% higher than their defensive stats, so you can calculate the not displayed defensive stats via the displayed offensive stats. You can also easily check them in the army info popup ("i" button in the army bar) where all attacking/defending damage values of an army are displayed. The naval bombers def stats vs the submarine armor class may have been higher still than your sub's attack stats vs. the air armor type, in which case your only chance of winning was to destroy the carrier fast enough to turn the planes into convoys.
      So yes a naval bomber sitting somewhere and being attacked will defend using their defensive stats. Defending is not visualized via a combat timer like attacking, it just happens the same moment attack damage is applied to them.

      Units currently upgrading cannot perform attacks on their own, they can only defend (which they do automatically).

      Attached in the image below are the army info stats of 10 naval bombers lvl2 (allied doctrine), as you can see they have def stats vs. all armor classes and deal 26.8 damage while defending vs submarines. Compare that to the 15 attack damage vs air units that 10 submarines lvl2 deal out, which makes it clear that naval bombers would still win.