Pinned The Open Bar Chatroom

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    • Had it not been for Stalin’s garbage police’s and ww2, the USSR probably could have kept up with the west pretty easily. The fact they even managed to remain quite close was a miracle, considering all the damage they faced.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • I think you are wrong here, overall. QoL in the USSR wasn't measured in cars or TV's, but in free access to health care and education, and everyone being able to get an affordable house (yes - even when it was a shitty appartment one).
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.

    • That is a point. Commie blocs may have not been fun places to live, but they did do their intended job. Homelessness and joblessness was rare in the USSR. It’s also a myth that the Soviet people were starving constantly. After Stalin the average Soviet consumed more (arguably less quality though) calories than the average American. Only in the collapse did things really go haywire. The the about the USSR is that is was specialized and excelled in various different fields while lagging behind on others. Maybe their cars were worse, but rockets were better. That sort of stuff.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Ballet, theatre, literature, and classical music also flourished in the USSR. And if anyone here wants to say, "yeah but who wants to see/read/hear that", that only proves the point.
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.

    • There are those expressionist Soviet films are very well made and are not even propagandist.. The Stalin era starvation and Gulag USSR and only a small part of its history. Of course the country was pretty suppressive but it’s hard to judge such a large civilization in such a manner, especially comparing it to what came after

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • quick question:
      should I focus on maxing economy or mass produce cheap troops or just balance it?
      (I'm commitern on day 5)
      "Hate, union, freedom, justice, equality, war, peace, violence, blood. It is but a perfect mixture on destiny and our lives. It is for the mass we trust and for the mass we contribute, or to selfishly to personal greed we follow, it is up to your choices on what mixture you want. My mixture is a bit of everything with madness and humility in it, the virtues will black and sinful, just like I per say." - Kaiser Luther Ernst Willienburg.

    • Nigeria in WaW
      I'm in war wwith north sudan (going well so far but I lose like 12 units)
      My army is small... 39 units
      but my production is decent (though I have no Goods rural province, making it hard to produce units)
      "Hate, union, freedom, justice, equality, war, peace, violence, blood. It is but a perfect mixture on destiny and our lives. It is for the mass we trust and for the mass we contribute, or to selfishly to personal greed we follow, it is up to your choices on what mixture you want. My mixture is a bit of everything with madness and humility in it, the virtues will black and sinful, just like I per say." - Kaiser Luther Ernst Willienburg.

    • Alr lemme shorten what's happening in the world for now
      I'm nigeria (bc commitern), my economy is roughly 500-600 though my goods production is at 400 bc I have no rural goods province. Day 5
      I'm at war with north sudan, I lost 15 units something to him, currently advancing to his core cities
      Europe is cut between italy germany and poland
      SOuth America is being taken by a golder invading inactives
      Below me are 3 inactives, and some active who are in different coalitions and a single 150lvl player with good kdr
      I'm trying to max out my buildings and industry, I am allied wwith upper volta who secure west
      "Hate, union, freedom, justice, equality, war, peace, violence, blood. It is but a perfect mixture on destiny and our lives. It is for the mass we trust and for the mass we contribute, or to selfishly to personal greed we follow, it is up to your choices on what mixture you want. My mixture is a bit of everything with madness and humility in it, the virtues will black and sinful, just like I per say." - Kaiser Luther Ernst Willienburg.

    • KaiserOfAnonymous wrote:

      Alr lemme shorten what's happening in the world for now
      I'm nigeria (bc commitern), my economy is roughly 500-600 though my goods production is at 400 bc I have no rural goods province. Day 5
      I'm at war with north sudan, I lost 15 units something to him, currently advancing to his core cities
      Europe is cut between italy germany and poland
      SOuth America is being taken by a golder invading inactives
      Below me are 3 inactives, and some active who are in different coalitions and a single 150lvl player with good kdr
      I'm trying to max out my buildings and industry, I am allied wwith upper volta who secure west
      Probably should kill your enemy then build.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • sure ig
      "Hate, union, freedom, justice, equality, war, peace, violence, blood. It is but a perfect mixture on destiny and our lives. It is for the mass we trust and for the mass we contribute, or to selfishly to personal greed we follow, it is up to your choices on what mixture you want. My mixture is a bit of everything with madness and humility in it, the virtues will black and sinful, just like I per say." - Kaiser Luther Ernst Willienburg.

    • Okay so, quick backstory; I have several close family members who grew up and lived in Poland until the mid-90s. What I'm saying is based on what they've told me (I was born in the United States and didn't witness the fall of communism or life with it). My family was upper middle class there, keep in mind that what I'm saying applies to people with some privileges over the rest, so it's not even the worst of it.


      K.Rokossovski wrote:

      I think you are wrong here, overall. QoL in the USSR wasn't measured in cars or TV's, but in free access to health care and education, and everyone being able to get an affordable house (yes - even when it was a shitty appartment one).
      I'm not measuring it on cars or TVs, I'm measuring it based on access to basic commodities that we take for granted in the West. Health care? The salary of doctors was abysmal, and bribes were not only expected but NEEDED if you/your family member wanted to be treated properly. This meant giving the doctor and caretakers rare things such as chocolate, coffee, or alcohol. Rations were distributed, but they were not enough to live off of, and everyone always used every single one given to them, regardless of whether it was needed or not. There are several reasons for this, but the main one is that stuff you may not need could be traded for something that you do need. Don't drink coffee but want butter - Use your ration and trade for it. The other big reason was that if you had a ration for something and it was available, it was always a good idea to get it ASAP, for it may not be available tomorrow. A good example of this was meat. There was not enough to meet rations, which were very small to begin with, so if you had a chance to get it, it was always wise to do so(and again, even if you didn't need it). If you were out someplace and you saw a line of people waiting in front of a store, you ALWAYS joined it, no matter if you knew what was even being sold - chances were that if people were waiting, there was a good reason for it. As for cars, they were horrible. The Fiat 125p "Maluch" (meaning little one) was a small car that my mom's side of the family owned. No safety features, very cramped, and it couldn't reach the max speed on highways(not that there were any, though). Even big and "luxurious" cars were bad by Western standards. As I said before, my family was pretty well off, so we had cars, but the typical wait for a car was a decade. The result of this is still seen in how Poles are obsessed with the Toyota Yaris, which, by American standards, is pretty much a compact car. People know that corruption was an issue in Eastern Bloc countries, but I think it's difficult for people who aren't from there to truly comprehend how bad it really was. Corruption wasn't just something that a few people did, it was systemic. As I've said, living off of rations was almost impossible, so people bought goods in illegal farmer's markets. According to how the economy was supposed to work, farm goods should have been given to the government to distribute, however, in that case, the farmers wouldn't be able to make a big enough profit to sustain themselves. Also, pretty much the same thing that I said about healthcare goes with education. It was not only expected but required to bring gifts if you wanted your children to receive the same treatment as others. I could go on about things like this for literal days. This is but a fraction of what life was, just the economic aspect of it. The biggest things aren't about QoL or how much stuff you could get, it was the ability to vote in free elections and speak your mind - that is truly priceless.

      I'm not calling anyone ignorant, it's just hard to understand and comprehend a system when you've lived your entire life taking for granted basic rights, the ability to choose what you do in life and how, and what to think. Don't say life in the USSR and other Eastern countries "wasn't that bad", it was brutal for everyone. As my mother said, "Communism was meant to make everyone equally rich, instead it made everyone equally poor". Since the success of the Solidarity(Solidarnosc) movement in 1989, Poland has become one of the fastest-growing economies in the West. It has gone from brain-drain to a glowing example of a rags-to-riches country. Immigration from Poland has reversed.

      A reminder, this is based on FIRST HAND accounts of life in the PRL. I've always been fascinated by how life looked there, so I've spent countless hours discussing this with my family members who lived through that era. I have a lot of knowledge, and I'd love to share it. Please feel free to ask questions. If I don't know something, I'll ask and find out for you. I really hope this helps bring to light more of how the economic side of the Eastern Bloc looked like, and that I was able to teach you something new.
      Kind regards,
      Donk
      Bytro game addict and avid CoW player.

      "Þ" > "th"


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    • Donk2.0 wrote:

      Okay so, quick backstory; I have several close family members who grew up and lived in Poland until the mid-90s. What I'm saying is based on what they've told me (I was born in the United States and didn't witness the fall of communism or life with it). My family was upper middle class there, keep in mind that what I'm saying applies to people with some privileges over the rest, so it's not even the worst of it.


      K.Rokossovski wrote:

      I think you are wrong here, overall. QoL in the USSR wasn't measured in cars or TV's, but in free access to health care and education, and everyone being able to get an affordable house (yes - even when it was a shitty appartment one).
      I'm not measuring it on cars or TVs, I'm measuring it based on access to basic commodities that we take for granted in the West. Health care? The salary of doctors was abysmal, and bribes were not only expected but NEEDED if you/your family member wanted to be treated properly. This meant giving the doctor and caretakers rare things such as chocolate, coffee, or alcohol. Rations were distributed, but they were not enough to live off of, and everyone always used every single one given to them, regardless of whether it was needed or not. There are several reasons for this, but the main one is that stuff you may not need could be traded for something that you do need. Don't drink coffee but want butter - Use your ration and trade for it. The other big reason was that if you had a ration for something and it was available, it was always a good idea to get it ASAP, for it may not be available tomorrow. A good example of this was meat. There was not enough to meet rations, which were very small to begin with, so if you had a chance to get it, it was always wise to do so(and again, even if you didn't need it). If you were out someplace and you saw a line of people waiting in front of a store, you ALWAYS joined it, no matter if you knew what was even being sold - chances were that if people were waiting, there was a good reason for it. As for cars, they were horrible. The Fiat 125p "Maluch" (meaning little one) was a small car that my mom's side of the family owned. No safety features, very cramped, and it couldn't reach the max speed on highways(not that there were any, though). Even big and "luxurious" cars were bad by Western standards. As I said before, my family was pretty well off, so we had cars, but the typical wait for a car was a decade. The result of this is still seen in how Poles are obsessed with the Toyota Yaris, which, by American standards, is pretty much a compact car. People know that corruption was an issue in Eastern Bloc countries, but I think it's difficult for people who aren't from there to truly comprehend how bad it really was. Corruption wasn't just something that a few people did, it was systemic. As I've said, living off of rations was almost impossible, so people bought goods in illegal farmer's markets. According to how the economy was supposed to work, farm goods should have been given to the government to distribute, however, in that case, the farmers wouldn't be able to make a big enough profit to sustain themselves. Also, pretty much the same thing that I said about healthcare goes with education. It was not only expected but required to bring gifts if you wanted your children to receive the same treatment as others. I could go on about things like this for literal days. This is but a fraction of what life was, just the economic aspect of it. The biggest things aren't about QoL or how much stuff you could get, it was the ability to vote in free elections and speak your mind - that is truly priceless.
      I'm not calling anyone ignorant, it's just hard to understand and comprehend a system when you've lived your entire life taking for granted basic rights, the ability to choose what you do in life and how, and what to think. Don't say life in the USSR and other Eastern countries "wasn't that bad", it was brutal for everyone. As my mother said, "Communism was meant to make everyone equally rich, instead it made everyone equally poor". Since the success of the Solidarity(Solidarnosc) movement in 1989, Poland has become one of the fastest-growing economies in the West. It has gone from brain-drain to a glowing example of a rags-to-riches country. Immigration from Poland has reversed.

      A reminder, this is based on FIRST HAND accounts of life in the PRL. I've always been fascinated by how life looked there, so I've spent countless hours discussing this with my family members who lived through that era. I have a lot of knowledge, and I'd love to share it. Please feel free to ask questions. If I don't know something, I'll ask and find out for you. I really hope this helps bring to light more of how the economic side of the Eastern Bloc looked like, and that I was able to teach you something new.
      Remember though, that is Poland. It was a country being colonized and exploited, so of course life there would be worse. In the Soviet Union, the same problems you mentioned existed, but on a lesser scale. Life was very obviously not easy or fun like tankies idealize it, but it wasn’t the same Stalin era hell that an average westerner is taught. Situation depended on time period, and the 60’s -early 80’s era Soviet Union was much more different to Stalin and Gorbachev times. Generally people in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus will say life was better before the collapse, while everyone else benefited from its fall. At least that’s what I see when I read anecdotes. A certain statistic rated the majority of Russians as preferring life in the Soviet Union. That makes sense; Putin’s Russia is as suppressive as the Soviet Union, but with an even worse living standard and worse war to boot. What I mean is that you can’t judge this country like monolith.

      Let is think about it as if the United States were to see an even worse state in a few years and collapse into different states. Future generations will remember America as that country that challenged say… China and (somehow) lost. It will be remembered for being a very divided country with huge wealth inequality and high living costs. American cultural power falls to China and its greatest songs and movies become Secondary and a relic of the past. Still, some states like Texas and California benefited from the collapse and manage to get back on their feet, while a remnant US with a huge part of the former country under its control becomes worse off and falls to strongmen and nationalism who promise glory… Texans tells you of the declining economy and the dread of watching society collapse, while people in the remnant state of New York tell of back when everyone who had a job could be promised a minimum wage and mostly clean water…

      Rather than that contrived and confusing tangent I could have just skipped to the point. This point? Different people were better and worse off, benefitted from or suffered in the Eastern bloc, and that the way we view it all should be more detailed and from different areas, times, and lives. This Eastern Bloc (including other communist states that isolated from the west like China) contained half the world for multiple generations, and while generally life kinda sucked for sure, it’s never that cut and dry. Unless it’s about those damn commies… what was I talking about again?

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate