#RestoreCANVAS

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

  • Oh yeah im set to become a mod so HAHA dont worry guys soon you will have an inside job fixing this. Also if you are a mod and you read that YOU ARE POO FORGET IT RIGHT NOW
    “I do not love the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior. I love only that which they defend.”

    “If you win, you need not explain!”

    “What difference does it make if destruction is wrought under the name of dictators or in the name of democracy?”

    War is Peace
    Slavery is Freedom
    Weakness is Strength
  • GrandEmpire wrote:

    Oh yeah im set to become a mod so HAHA dont worry guys soon you will have an inside job fixing this. Also if you are a mod and you read that YOU ARE POO FORGET IT RIGHT NOW
    I love how you called the mods reading your post "poo" and BMFox still liked it.
    "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin

    Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!

    DxC's battle calculator(not updated for 1.5):
    dxcalc.com/cow
  • Basically what I meant:

    - The users playing on Canvas are the dinosaurs of the game. They have played for a long time, and due to their experience, they simply don't need gold anymore. Given the influx of new players on mobile devices, their game skills are enough for victory, so they don't bring in any money. There's no need to keep them or invest in their presence, so let's phase out Canvas as there is not much harm in getting rid of them.

    - A significant portion of our player base has become "too good" at the game, and are beating newer players despite those newbies using gold. When these newbs "pay to win", they EXPECT to win, but they don't, because these dinosaurs will beat them nonetheless. We should get rid of these players, as they prevent us from delivering our paying customers the victory they paid for. Do they have something in common? Yes, many of them use Canvas. If we get rid of that, they will just leave, which is exactly what we want. We'll weep in public and ask them to play WebGL instead but we already know they won't. Good riddance!
    Forum Rank list here

    Make sure to read and like this thread->The new Roman Empire

    Murica Oh yea!

    Vive le Empire!!!!!

    |RBoi200 likes this

    The post was edited 1 time, last by whowh ().

  • The attached picture is a day 1 pic...please note all the lines from the movement of my troops. Because I can't get rid of the lines I can't tell where I have sent each as many lines cross.

    It would be very helpful if the lines didn't appear UNLESS I hover over them as in Canvas.
    I think the tags next to each one also creates a 'busy/cluttered' map that distracts from being able to see what is needed to better play.

    Lastly, if you all are dead set in making us live with the movement lines maybe consider making them a little more obvious instead of blending them in with yellow on yellow.

    When you have 50+ units moving and are engages in multiple battles/wars these colors and tags just make it very difficult to follow your troops.
    Files
    • day 1.PNG

      (407.02 kB, downloaded 6 times, last: )
    "Until there are clearly defined and enforceable rules for hand-to-hand combat, there can't be rules in global war. Kill em all!"
  • K.Rokossovski wrote:

    K.Rokossovski wrote:

    DoctorDR1 wrote:

    Ok, let me just clear something up. There is no conspiracy, cover up, or lies of any kind.
    Why are you so sure about that? I remember from my own time as a staff member that there was minimal information from up in the hierarchy (i.e. paid people) and that criticizing Bytro was he biggest no-no a volunteer could do... in fact it got me kicked off staff when I spoke too frankly about golding issues. So I don't suspect you of lying; you're just as under-informed as the rest of us.Bytro may have developed a GREAT game (well... before Canvas was dropped), but as a company, it breathes a narrow-minded, secretive atmosphere. For example, they are all the time saying that they have these magic statistical "queries" about the game, yet they never fail to publish ANY of them. I understand there is SOME level of competition concern about them; yet I don't really see how Paradox would benefit from (just a few from the top of my head) knowing what is the top-10 of most-used units in Call of War; how many games are won by coalitions as opposed to single players by map type; or what the correlation between rank (=CoW gaming expericence) and wins is (note that NONE of these are about gold!). All we get now is, that there is a "vast majority" of people using WebGL; but has it been cross-referenced with average daily play time, gaming persistance (players dropping in and quitting quickly vs. dedicated long-term players), map winners, or other factors? We can assume that it has been done, but not a word from Bytro about it. When asking about "how does a list of unrelated issues affect Canvas crashing", all we get is a vague answer about "changes under the hood" that caused Canvas to crash (any decent developers knows that the key criterium for "changes under the hood" is, that they don't affect user experience; this one obviously does, so in a normal company it would be rolled back).

    Bytro has repeatedly stated and shown that there is just one, overwhelmingly important criterium to base decisions on: revenue. Having people click the "Buy with gold" buttons lavishly provided throughout the game is ALWAYS prevalent to secondary issues like game balance, player perception, being taken seriously as a game, and even PR. Bytro admits this, stating the poor developer's families and the uncertainty of changes to the business model as reasons. What it does NOT say is the length they will go to implement this - but we must assume that it is enormous, given that there is simply NO room for incentives to makes those secondary issues balance even slightly more with revenue considerations. So, knowing that, what considerations might be at work when deciding to phase out canvas? Here are some possibilities:

    - The users playing on Canvas are the dinosaurs of the game. They have played for a long time, and due to their experience, they simply don't need gold anymore. Given the influx of new players on mobile devices, their game skills are enough for victory, so they don't bring in any money. There's no need to keep them or invest in their presence, so let's phase out Canvas as there is not much harm in getting rid of them.

    - A significant portion of our player base has become "too good" at the game, and are beating newer players despite those newbies using gold. When these newbs "pay to win", they EXPECT to win, but they don't, because these dinosaurs will beat them nonetheless. We should get rid of these players, as they prevent us from delivering our paying customers the victory they paid for. Do they have something in common? Yes, many of them use Canvas. If we get rid of that, they will just leave, which is exactly what we want. We'll weep in public and ask them to play WebGL instead but we already know they won't. Good riddance!

    Are these conspiracy theories? Well maybe; but remember that a conspiracy theory is one that goes against overwhelming proof that it isn't true. Due to the secrecy of Bytro, here we have none.

    And the sad thing is, that it is of course Bytro's right to do whatever they please with their customers... they're not some government institution, they're a commercial business and they can deny service (or, change terms to make them unacceptible) to whichever customer group they please. Really, Bytro, you can be frank with us... if you want us out, you might as well say so.

    PS - to my fellow forumers, when you find me banned soon and this post deleted, you know I've hit a nail on the head... it doesn't matter to me anymore, I stopped playing anyway.

    BMfox wrote:

    Please don't make another canvas thread. Please post your comment in the appropriate threads. I won't have the whole forum spammed with canvas threads. I have deleted before and I'll delete again. There's no conspiracy. I'm closing this thread.
    At mod's request, reposting it. Of course, I had forgotten the possibility to close threads. "Spamming canvas threads" is the excuse now... while this is the single subject that occupies the community, reviving a forum to full liveliness which was nothing but a village square for many moons... but of course, it is much easier to mute criticism when it is all in one thread; stats show that people don't read all those pages...
    Hey BM, I was actually going to suggest to create a separate room/board for Canvas discussion, but I guess you're not up for that then? ;)
    Dang, Roko. I think you are my hero....saying what NEEDS to be said, yet bravely — actually — doing it, without fear of getting banned.

    That said, regardless of whether the conspiracies are true (I doubt it), I think Bytro has dropped the ball on giving the community any valid reasons why we should either believe or accept the changes. Yet, because I am a peacemaker, I've offered the idea of compromising on the whole WebGL issue…keeping it (and not canvas), but with a low-res sub-mode that at least emulates canvas without being canvas.

    As to the conspiracies, I can't imagine the long-term players getting dumped due to lack of spending on Gold, since many — if not most — invest in High Command. While High Command isn't as valuable as Gold, in terms of revenue, it is consistent. A long-term player who buys High Command is likely to keep buying High Command. But any player (new or old) is far less likely to buy Gold long-term, because they either learn how to play the game more and more without it (lending small credence to your conspiracy theory), or they get bored and leave, often without even spending all the Gold the purchased.

    The dilemma for Bytro has always been deciding whether to prioritize development on the game to accommodate the long-term players who consistently help pay the bills, or to prioritize development on the game to accommodate the short-term fly-by-night players who (like a pyramid scheme) bring in a larger — but temporary — boost to funds by buying Gold.

    I think that, as long as they keep attracting new players who do buy Gold, they'll keep up the same model, even though 90+% of those players quit soon after, and never return. So long as there are untapped millions of new players that they might get to play in the future, Bytro is never going to prioritize on keeping existing players…not even newer ones that stick around longer than a few months.

    We can whine and scream and talk conspiracy theories all we want. But unless we buy Gold — and lots of it — we long-term players are never going to really get taken seriously by the people who control the reins at Bytro. Sure, maybe the volunteer staff are sympathetic. Maybe the community coordinators are sympathetic. Maybe the devs are sympathetic. But none of those are in charge of the decision-making process at the corporation. And the people who are likely don't even play the game.

    At least, with my compromise solution, maybe the devs can "sneak in" a canvas emulation compromise that appeases us long-termers without upsetting their financial overlords too much. That way, they can keep their precious vaunted WebGL and not "waste time" developing the canvas mode.

    Mr Selfridge wrote:

    This is the most accurate post ever. Whether they intentionally got rid of us, or whether it was a statistical outcome from a complicated marketing alogrithmitic it is the way it ended up. More likley the latter, and some marketing genius did not factor in player attributes that we hold important.
    Any marketing "genius" at Bytro likely never played the game beyond two days. They're too good at their job to waste time "playing games. :rolleyes:

    GrandEmpire wrote:

    Oh yeah im set to become a mod so HAHA dont worry guys soon you will have an inside job fixing this. Also if you are a mod and you read that YOU ARE POO FORGET IT RIGHT NOW
    As if a volunteer moderator had any power to control or subvert the software development of the game... :S :P
  • ike53 wrote:

    The attached picture is a day 1 pic...please note all the lines from the movement of my troops. Because I can't get rid of the lines I can't tell where I have sent each as many lines cross.

    It would be very helpful if the lines didn't appear UNLESS I hover over them as in Canvas.
    I think the tags next to each one also creates a 'busy/cluttered' map that distracts from being able to see what is needed to better play.

    Lastly, if you all are dead set in making us live with the movement lines maybe consider making them a little more obvious instead of blending them in with yellow on yellow.

    When you have 50+ units moving and are engages in multiple battles/wars these colors and tags just make it very difficult to follow your troops.
    Now THIS is an issue that the devs can solve without going back to Canvas. Like with most visual issues we may have with the WebGL version(s), this is a matter of coloration choices and/or game engine rules. In the case of movement lines always being shown, that's an engine rule that can be easily changed to not show. In the case of the movement lines being hard to see, that's a coloration choice that can be easily changed to one that is easy to see.

    Even better, in this case, the devs could work a little harder to make it so that the movement lines automatically contrast with the palette color choice of the province (or water) that they currently cross over. Of course, this would have to be a dynamically-changing color scheme that would automatically switch colors whenever a province changes color (by changing ownership, or the view setting switches to morale or political views, etc.)
  • RBoi200 wrote:

    I love how you called the mods reading your post "poo" and BMFox still liked it.
    I've got my sense of humor ;)
    BMfox

    Moderator
    EN Community Support | Bytro Labs Gmbh


    Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!


    Dinosaurs died because they didn't evolve, luckily COW does. Let's embrace it instead of complaining about it.

    "It's only cold when you need petrol to get a tank out of the ice to depart": my bootcamp training sergeant.
  • Claudio von Panjim wrote:

    Why don't you guys understand, they removed canvas because there were major bugs with it so canvas can't come back
    They can fix the bugs, roll back the implementation that caused the bugs, or make a low-res version of the game that emulates canvas mode.

    To say that "major bugs" is the reason to remove Canvas Mode is/was a bit of a copout. They threw away the baby with the bathwater ("Oh, it's too hard to fix. Let's just kill it. We were planning to, anyway." BLAH BLAH BLAH).

    I don't care if it's a legit reason or not, they chose to drop Canvas, and they probably are going to stick to their guns on this issue. And they will lose many players over it....and I don't think they care [much]. That said, if they at least take my advice on building a low-res canvas emulation to at-least approximate the canvas look and feel, they could mitigate most of that loss without having to maintain a completely separate game implementation.

    Low, mid, and high res versions of WebGL are all maintained by the same generic edits to WebGL on the server side implementation. An emulation "Classic View" mode could simply consist of a few optional settings that appear only on desktop mode in the low-res version of the game for desktop. And, these buttons could be made to appear only as a second column once a single special button has been pressed within the settings foldout of choices.

    The buttons would each be responsible for activating/deactivating "Classic View" canvasy mode styles, i.e., one for tiered/stepped zoom (as opposed to dynamic zoom), one for paler canvas-style palette of game colors (political view of nations, morale colors, and friend/foe unit colors), one for showing/hiding of resources, one for showing/hiding of units, maybe one for forcing units to make themselves [more] off-center from the map points (i.e, their own red dot, the dot of cities, other units, etc.) that they are sitting on, and etc....

    For details as to my suggestions on this "Classic View" low-res WebGL mode, please click here.
  • Claudio von Panjim wrote:

    Why don't you guys understand, they removed canvas because there were major bugs with it so canvas can't come back
    this is the big answer I understand they could fix it but another one of there reasons is most players were playing on weblg when I used canvas it would glitch and was not playable.
    when being betrayed betray
  • In this pic I have 6 stacks moving forward and you can see their route by the yellow lines. You can see by the green bullseye 3 spots they are going to. In Canvas you didn't have the yellow lines and you could hover and get where one stack was going and that made Canvas so much better. I will explain.
    I can't tell if I have selected all my units to go forward. I can't hover and see where it is going. So I have to click on each and then look at the time of arrival to see if it is moving and then I still can't tell which green bullseye it is going to because of all the same color lines...all the lines really defeat the purpose of having the lines in the first place.
    You can't have multiple color lines over the same road so changing them to different colors will not help.
    But taking them off will give you a cleaner battle field look and maybe leaving the green bullseye as an enhancement...
    Files
    "Until there are clearly defined and enforceable rules for hand-to-hand combat, there can't be rules in global war. Kill em all!"