Realistic WW2 Game # 3 Invite

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    • Realistic WW2 Game # 3 Invite

      You are invited to play 1939 Call of War games with us. This post is in the Role Playing section as it is frequented by players that are involved and care about realism, for the 1939 start game.

      GOALS & RULES:
      1. REALISTIC WW2 PLAY.
      2. CORRECT & FAIR SIDES.
      3. SERIOUSNESS.
      4. CORRECT ALLIANCES.
      5. NO CHEESE!
      6. APPROPRIATE START.
      7. PERMANANCY.
      8. ADVICE/ SHARING/ TEACHING.

      EXPLANATION OF GOALS & RULES:
      1. REALISTIC WW2 PLAY. Not an exact recreation of WW2, but following realistic possibilities from the 1939 start onwards.
      -The ALLIES or Neutrals may not attack Neutrals unless to defend them from the AXIS or Soviets.
      -Germany & the Soviets are initially allied.
      -The U.S.A. is initially a Neutral and a strict Isolationist.
      -Italy starts as a Neutral.
      -France may not attack Germany proper until after the Phony War on day 18 (18th ‘turn’ as per the research chart day).
      2. CORRECT ALLIANCES & COUNTRY SPECIFICS.
      -ALLIES: U.K. + France. France & U.K are allied and should immediately share maps.
      -AXIS: Initially Germany. Italy and Yugoslavia will join later.
      -USSR. The Soviets sent communist troops to the Spanish Civil War, therefore Spain may do the same and send volunteers to Russia and not be officially at war with the USSR nor the ALLIES. Sweden may defend Finland against the USSR and again, not be at war with the Soviets.
      Before the start of the game the Soviets and the Germans will have an agreement (Molotov-Ribbentrop) over the division of Poland, Finland, Romania, the Baltic States, etc. Afterwards the Soviets and the Germans are officially allied.
      The USSR must wait until the Spring of 1942 to attack the AXIS (this is CoW Newspaper day 8 [day 23 by the research chart days]).
      The Soviets are an eventual ALLIED side player. Historical claims: Finland (the Viipuri ONLY), Romania (Chisinau ONLY). Attacking Sweden, Norway, Bulgaria, etc., or attacking more than these provinces might make Russia an ENEMY of Sweden, Yugoslavia and/ or the ALLIES.
      -U.S.A. The U.S. becomes ALLIED at the very end of day 7 (end of day 22 via the research chart- actually Dec.11, 1941), then may land troops at 06:00 game time turn 22(historically a 3 week ocean voyage to eastern hemisphere). The U.S. is restricted to pre-war navy of 1 active battleship and 3 mothballed/ inactive battleships. Not until the summer of 1941 (day 7 [day 22 by the research chart]) may the U.S. put their troops in the Atlantic, west Iceland (western ½ of the Atlantic). At that point the U.S. will actively defend their lend-lease to the U.K. This may require being at war with Germany.
      The U.S. may take Iceland upon the fall of Copenhagen, but may not leave troops there until Germany declares war.
      The U.S. may help take Canada for the U.K., including transferring regiments to the U.K. (day 4, as Canadians). Note that only 4 provinces in CoW may be transferred, and not until game day 7.
      -Italy. Italy is a Neutral in 1939. The western ALLIES may not declare war on Italy unless Italy declares war on Greece, Portugal or Poland (or under other extreme circumstances). Italy will start with much less $, resources -especially Oil; they were restricted by a severe oil shortage in WW2.
      IF the ALLIES take Rome OR they’ve lost their North African holdings AND the ALLIES take Sicily, Italy is done as an AXIS player. They switch to the ALLIED side, retaining just 3 regiments. Other troops disband and a few join Germany.
      -Yugoslavia Neutral and is substituted for AXIS Romania. There are 1,224,691 Romanian soldiers that are strangely absent from CoW. If the Soviets declare war that activates Yugoslavia as an AXIS player, otherwise Yugo is activated 1 game day after Germany AXIS attacks Russia.
      New Yugoslavian troop purchases and research are severely limited, mainly to conscripts for the remainder of the war. They used outdated weaponry and had to outsource for most of their military hardware in WW2. Yugoslavia will start with much less $ and resources than the game allows.
      -Pro-AXIS Spain. Spain is Neutral, and must act as such. Activated upon the capture of Egypt, Levant & Cyprus (not counting Malta) & there is a CLEAR AXIS vs the British- talk to the game moderator. Spain starts with almost zero $ & few resources in the game, as their Goldand foreign exchange reserves had been virtually wiped out by the ongoing civil war. New Spanish troop purchases and research are severely limited, mainly to conscripts for the remainder of the war. They used outdated weaponry and had to outsource for most of their military hardware in WW2.
      -Pro-AXIS Turkey. Turkey is a Neutral, and must act as such. May not attack any countries until activated. Activated upon the capture of ALL capture of British territory in Egypt, Levant and Cyprus. The Turkish owned Bosporus is CLOSED to all traffic! New Turkish troop purchases and research are severely limited, mainly to conscripts for the remainder of the war. They used outdated weaponry and had to outsource for most of their military hardware in WW2. Turkey will start with much less $ and resources than the game allows.
      -Strictly neutral Sweden.
      -Vichy France. If set-up by the AXIS, a set amount of the French forces, (called ‘Vichy’ France) will become an AXIS ally (a German Protectorate). The western ALLIES may attack the ‘neutral’ Vichy France. For specifics about a proposed Vichy, look at the replies to this post and/ or message the game moderator.
      -Portugal is an ALLIED member. Any attacks upon them is an attack on the ALLIES.
      3. SERIOUSNESS. Sadly, players often quit CoW. Hopefully players here will remain in games because they’ll show serious intent. Indicate your interest in reply posts or message me in CoW. We will post the countries taken and available for the next game in reply post here below.
      4. FAIR. These games should be low gold usage games. Some people WILL spend gold, however most are not here to win just by outspending others.
      5. NO CHEESE! Acceptable ‘right of ways’ in our games are:
      AXIS- Finland, Sweden (limited), Romania, Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria (not Spain).
      ALLIES- Belgium, Holland, Norway, Portugal, Denmark, Finland (ALLIES for defense vs. Russia ONLY). Sweden- Germany (to play Hungary/ Slovakia), Finland for defense vs. Russian ONLY.
      6. APPROPRIATE START:
      -U.K. can immediately take Canada (1.6 million citizens in military on the ALLIED side), Iceland upon fall of Copenhagen.
      -U.S.A. may take Cuba asap (an ALLIED member in 1941).
      -Slovakia & Hungary. Hungary declared war against the Soviets on 27 June 1941 and had a the 209,000-man-strong Second Army & the Slovakians 2 divisions. Both fought the USSR as reluctant AXIS members. Both should be played by the Swedish player, as both in CoW are neutrals and NOT allied with the AXIS.
      7. PERMANANCY. We are trying to create a base of players that will have fun from game to game. We’re trying to get a core of nice, ‘normal,’ serious players to play CoW with.
      8. ADVICE/ SHARING/ TEACHING. We will always be glad to share CoW game advice, share our (limited) knowledge of game mechanics, and teach basic strategies to help create a fair & balanced gaming environment.

      Rules:
      -NO ROCKETS. Rockets were a terror weapon and are very over-valued in most games. They did miniscule industrial damage & virtually no troops were killed by them. Researching them for jets is ok.
      -The only countries that are allowed to use nuclear bombers is the U.S.A. and Germany (others 1952 & 1953). -No nukes at enemies that are engaged in combat (collateral damage).
      -No Nuclear subs or BBs. These are cold war era weapons (estimated 1950+).
      -No personal insults please. Hatred of, and comments about one’s enemy is ok.
      -Please don’t curse in the Newspaper.
      -Player’s using dirty usernames will not be allowed.

      REMINDERS:
      -NO ROCKETS.
      -You will be very welcome to our games. We will treat you with respect and honor.
      -If you are defeated and if the victor desires that arrangement, you may continue the game as a conquered minor. Details to be arranged by the conqueror at that point.
      - WE WILL RESTART a new game if the game is glitiching/ unplayable by anyone, players do not show up, drop, are very inactive, are uncooperative or under very strange circumstances.
      -If a player wishes to surrender please make it clear in the Newspaper.
      Please message me for next-game start times and a password. All games will be 10 player, free choice, 1939 games titled ‘AXIS vs ALLIES.’
    • GAME START INFO:

      Start Time:
      asap

      1939 map, 10 player, Free Choice

      Game Name:
      AXIS vs ALLIES 3

      Password:
      Will be sent upon game creation

      ALLIES:
      U.K.- KC Overlord
      U.S.A. – probably ‘China.mike’ The U.S. player activates Dec 11, 1941.
      France - Sgt. Rock
      Soviet – john pete1

      AXIS:
      Italy- rogodeterSnowl
      Germany – James Hartmund
      Yugoslavia - ? ? ? The Yugo player will come in later.
      James Hartmund will play AXIS

      Pro-AXIS:
      Spain – ? ? ? The Spanish player will come in later *Note that Spain is Neutral, but plays 8 regiments against the Soviets (without officially being at war).
      Turkey- ? ? ? If activated, the Turkish player will come in later

      Neutral:
      Sweden – Floki2 *Note that the Swedish player plays plays Hungary & Slovakia & 4 defensive regiments [in Finland] (without officially being at war).

      Interested Players: Patfan76, Sphere, DoLhades
    • VICHY FRANCE

      FRENCH PROBLEMS
      Historic Reasons:
      1. It was clear that French military forces were overwhelmed and that military collapse was imminent. France’s best and most modern French armies had been sent north and lost in the resulting encirclement.
      2. Government and military leaders, deeply shocked by the debacle.
      3. Weygand lacked the reserves to counter a breakthrough or to replace front line troops, 4. Low morale of French Leaders

      Where:
      Lyon, France's second-largest city, would have been a more logical choice butmayorÉdouard Herriotwas too associated with the Third Republic. Marseilles had a reputation as the dangerous "Chicago" of France. Toulouse was too remote and had a left-wing reputation. Vichy was centrally located and had many hotels for ministers to use.

      Terms:
      1. Germany kept 2 million French soldiersin Germany as prisoners doing forced laboras hostages to ensure
      2. French Army disbands.
      3. Army Reduced. Remaining troops:
      Vichy French Metropolitan Army
      Reduced to 100,000 (to maintain domestic order).
      Anti-aircraft force of 10,000 men.
      All volunteers.
      Deprived of tanks and other armored vehicles.
      Had cavalry units.
      Vichy French colonial forces
      Reduced in accordance with the terms of the Armistice.
      In the Mediterranean area alone, Vichy had nearly a 150,000 men under arms.
      4. France had to pay the occupation costs of the German troops. This was 20 million Reichmarks per day, paid at the artificial rate of twenty francs to the Mark, 50 times the actual costs of the occupation garrison.
      5. Had to pay a heavy tribute in gold, food, and supplies to Germany.
      The greater part of the overseas French colonieswere originally under Vichy control.
      6. French Navy is taken out of the war.
      7. Troops kept in Syria.

      Notes:
      Low morale of French Leaders
      Churchill asked General Gamelin, Where is the strategic reserve? "There is none" Gamelin replied. Wegand said “Weygand now asserted it would not take long for the French Army to disintegrate.”

      Maginot Swiss border and the Maginot defences were cut off from the rest of France. Most units surrendered on 25 June, and the Germans claimed to have taken 500,000 prisoners.
      Of the 58 major fortifications on the Maginot Line, just 10 were captured by the Wehrmacht in battle.

      Your comments on the creation of a Vichy France are welcome. The establishment of a Vichy Protectorate is complicated. Remember that most French players will not wish to go Vichy and will give reasons why they should not.
      Please be historically based if you respond.
    • Sir ellio and those that are interested,
      Straight talk- the Yugoslavians (who are substituted for the Romanians that should be in the game), as well as Spain, Turkey, and for Sweden (for about 1/2 their military might), should be extremely limited. Allow me to explain. These 'minors' made little in the way of their own military hardware. Small arms, yes, but artillery, planes, tanks and even armored cars, not at all. Feel free to check the net for the details.
      Therefore in our games, and in history, the minors can only make and upgrade militia, other than their starting troops. That is harsh truth. The only exception to that is Sweden, that has very good infantry, made the Bofors ant-aircraft guns and exported them, a very good fighter (like a P-51), plus an equivalent to a BT-7 looking tank used until 1942. In other words, the minors only bought their military equipment from others (Germany, Britain, Russia, France & the U.S.). Anything else is just playing a Risk-like fantasy game. We did not know the extent of them being this research & equipment poor until the in-depth research.
      ALSO, the minors didn't have or make much money and were generally out of $ and low on resources. 1939 was the tail-end of a world-wide depression, and these minors were no exception. They should give most of their $ to a neutral player; we're using the Swedes for that.
      So to recap:
      1. Minors may only make & upgrade militia. This assumes that they can make & upgreade all the rifles, pistols, grenades, small-type mortars, demolition packs, Molotov cocktails, etc. themselves (small-arms).
      2. They may however purchase equipment from other countries (Germany, Britain, France, Russia- and later the U.S.A. [Sweden for AAA].
      3. The minors start with a various very low initial money levels. Most $ is given to Sweden at the start. Italy starts with almost no oil.

      Below I'll put a smattering of facts I gleaned from the net about GDP & the minor's equipment. It's a LOT, so only read it if you're a history buff type person. X/

      Beginning of war yearly nation GDPs.



      (1)United States: 84.7 billion
      (2) Germany: 46.0 billion*
      (3) UK: 27.51 billion
      (4) USSR: 23.02 billion
      (5) France: 16.18 billion
      (6) Italy: 8.68 billion
      (7) Japan: 7.49 billion

      Bulgaria: 0.65 billion
      Hungary: 1.45 billion
      Poland: 4.63 billion
      Romania: 1.67 billion
      Yugoslavia: 1.69 billion

      Estimated GDP's of others
      Sweden: 3.15 billion (assumed per capita income of British/German level, 500 dollars)
      Spain: 2.53 billion (assumed per capita income of Bulgarian level, 100 dollars)



      CoW Minors Information



      SPAIN:

      1. Estimated 25K’ish $.

      2. Troops types available:

      At the end of the Second World War, the Spanish Army counted 325,000 soldiers. The equipment dated from the Civil War, with some systems produced in Germany during the World War. Doctrine and Training were obsolete, as they had not incorporated the teachings of the Second World War.

      Nationalists (German and Italian) - Savoia-Machett 81s
      Rifles- K98, Fucile 1891
      Machine guns-MG34
      Monoplanes -JU 87, BF 109
      Light tanks-Pz I, II

      Able to produce & upgradable: Militia.



      TURKEY:

      In 1938 the Turkish standing army had 194 000 men. 60 infantry, 6 mountain, 21 cav, 8 reserve cav, 20 field arty, 10 heavy artiy, and 7 fortress arty). In early 1941 Turkey established, 43 divisions and three independent inf brigades, 2 divisions and one independent cavalry bde, as well as 2 mech divs. The armed forces were poorly equipped; weapons shipments from Germany, Great Britain, and U.S. did little to improve that condition. Just before the onset of hostilities the Turkish navy underwent a program of expansion and modernization; 2 subs were ordered for construction in Germany, 2 subs and 4 DDs were ordered for construction in U.K. Lesser vessels were also constructed in home shipyards. After Germany delivered one sub in 1939, the Turkish navy contained 19 naval vessels and they included one armored ship, 1 line cruiser, 2 lt cruisers, 2 tp-boats, 4 DDs, 5 subs, and 5 other lesser ships (most obsolete);. The real combat value of the navy was insignificant. By the end of WWII, the navy had one battle cruiser, two cruisers, 8 DDs, 12 subs. By 1940 the Turkish air force was composed of 4 air regiments and had in possession a total of 370 aircraft. Thanks to British and French shipments one more air regiment, along with five independent air wings, was formed in 1941. Shipments of military equipment from Germany replaced the shipments from Allied countries in the same year. Close to the end of the war, two air force divisions were organized; they together contained 15 air wings.

      Able to produce & upgradable: Militia.



      YUGOSLAVIA (substituted for Romania- 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in the summer of 1944 that SHOULD be in the scenario):

      Serbian Yugoslav monarchy

      Regent Prince Paul personally sympathized with the Western Allies.

      Attempted at establishing a friendly stance with Germany and Italy

      Yugoslavia was reluctantly pressured into joining the Axis alliance, and it prompted mass demonstrations and an overthrow of the regency.



      Arms by April, 1941

      Army:

      28 inf divisions, 3 cav divisions, and 35 independent regiments. (Each had 1-3 inf regiments and 1-3 arty bns.

      About 1,200,000

      Royal Yugoslav Army was still largely equipped with weapons and material from WW1

      Artillery:

      4,000 artillery pieces (800 modern).

      6 motorized artillery regiments

      812 Czech37mmand 47mmanti-tank guns.

      2,300 mortars including 1600 modern 81mm pieces, as well as twenty four 220 and 305mm pieces

      6 motorized infantry battalions in the 3 cavalry divisions.

      Armor:

      2 tank battalions equipped with 110 tanks, 1 of which had Renault FTmodels of WW 1 origin and the other 54 modern French Renault R35tanks, plus an independent tank company with 8 Czech SI-Dtank destroyers.

      1,000 trucks for military purposes had been imported from the United States of Americain the months just preceding the invasion

      Commando:

      3 organized as "alpine" units.

      Air Force 1 anti-aircraft arty.

      3 brigades with a total of 14 bomber, eight fighter flights.
      Aircraft strength was estimated at 500 with a further 300 reserve and training aircraft. These totals included 30 Italian Savoia-Marchetti bombers, 70 Dornier Do 17Ks and50 Bristol Blenheims.
      [b]73 fighters
      [/b] were German Bf 109Es (although only 46 were serviceable when war broke out) and 40 were Hurricanes.

      Navy:

      1 training cruiser

      6 DDs

      2 Subs



      SWEDEN:

      The Bofors 40 mm, a Swedish auto cannon, was exported to most warring countries in thousands of examples, making it the most common anti-aircraft weapon of the war.

      Tanks:

      Stridsvagn L-60 (215 total)

      Strv m/42 (342 total- Nov. 1941)

      Both made at Landsverk, 102 at Volvo (Landskrona, Sweden)

      Planes: J 22 fighters (1943)

      Able to produce & upgradable: Infantry, Militia & AAA. Tanks, fighters & AT-regiments in limited numbers.
    • Russian Restrictions?

      ~ Sorry folks a CoW glitch forced me to post that long article twice just now ~
      In Reply to john pete1 concerning Russian restrictions:
      There has been some minor thought given to any proposed Russian restrictions to research. The thoughts were that Russia starts behind in a few areas as it is, and what they lack in quality they make up for in quantity. For example their starting manpower is scarcely any larger than Germany's, and it should be many times more- you've seen the Enemy at the Gates movie. It could therefore be seen as an armored regiment in a panzer division having 250'ish tanks at full strength, whereas a Russian regiment would have many times more tanks. The restriction might be built into the game. Otherwise I've never seen the Russian starting restrictions but I imagine that it was right on. They had the T-34 in the works (the massive KV's already), good 122 & 152 artillery, good plans for Lavochkins, MIGs & Yaks going at the games start (or soon thereafter), Katyushas in 1939, Pe-2s prototypes out in 1939 & Sturmoviks on the way. In other words, and in my opinion, they should be up to snuff because of good 'enough' designs and massive production (numbers).
      As far as straight armored regiment numbers goes, the USSR should have a ton of tanks- way more than they start with. However we mustn't forget their poor armor theory, their armor dispersed into the Army Corps (like the French), the initiative curtailing 1930's officer purges, that maintenance and readiness standards were very poor; ammunition and radios were in short supply, and many units lacked the trucks needed for resupply beyond their basic fuel and ammunition loads and there was little to no Russian tank recovery equipment.
      Now their ships were another story altogether. I would hope that CoW has restricted their ships & subs to 1920s & 30s antiquated vessels.
      As always, any one's opinions are welcome :)