Artillery attack range.

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    • Adelaide_Crows wrote:

      I find it strange that artillery has the same range through each level. I think it would more realistic and all around better if higher levels of artillery had more attack range. This would promote the researching of artillery more, as players would now be able to attack from a distance without taking return fire, like they currently do.
      I definitely support adding extra range to SP Artillery as my calculations (still not completed, so didn't post them) found out regular artillery was almost always more cost-effective. However, giving higher artillery levels extra range would be a great balance change, and range buffs are difficult to evaluate and take steps to prevent the change from making the unit OP. Levels in 1.5 are a more than significant advantage and I don't think they need to be further buffed with increased range, unless you want to reduce high level arty's firepower to offset it, that is.
      "In CoW, don't stamp on things before looking. Rakes are everywhere!"

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    • BMfox wrote:

      Making the range bigger of artillery is difficult as you are limited in weight and size of the cannon in order to also have maneuverability. I see the research more into the shells that are being researched in the lab and can cause more mortality that way.
      Sorry but this doesnt make sense - since the invention of artillery/ballista the goal has ALWAYS been to 'outrange' the enemy.
      "Es gibt keine verzweifelten Lagen, es gibt nur verzweifelte Menschen" - There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people.
      General Heinz Guderian (Schneller Heinz)

      Kenny says - You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away And know when to run
    • dw98 wrote:

      BMfox wrote:

      Making the range bigger of artillery is difficult as you are limited in weight and size of the cannon in order to also have maneuverability. I see the research more into the shells that are being researched in the lab and can cause more mortality that way.
      Sorry but this doesnt make sense - since the invention of artillery/ballista the goal has ALWAYS been to 'outrange' the enemy.
      Very correct Dw98, and increasing range of a cannon isnt very difficult at all. Transportation was barely an issue after the mass mechanization of supply lines, as standard cargo trucks could easily carry up to 105mm cannons. Not to mention trains, which are also silently factored into the game and could carry just about any sized cannon. In fact, the US started WWII using 75mm field artillery and increased it to 105 without any significant changes to supply chains. And obviously, a larger caliber equals longer range.
      In the modern day, the goal might be to focus on shell R&D since cannons larger than 150mm are impractical on the modern battlefield, but that wasn't the case during WWII when artillery technology was still developing.
    • dw98 wrote:

      Sorry but this doesnt make sense - since the invention of artillery/ballista the goal has ALWAYS been to 'outrange' the enemy.
      The process ballista to modern artillery took about 2500 years. The invention from the cannon to modern day artillery took about 600 years. I simply don't see any artillery cannon upgrading on the battlefield. Once the artillery piece has been produced and on the front, I don't see a way to increase range, especially not during the course of a single war. Of course I'm no artillery specialist so I could be wrong. The upgrades of artillery today in COW, I see them more as an improvement of ammunition in research labs.

      newbgamer101 wrote:

      Very correct Dw98, and increasing range of a cannon isnt very difficult at all. Transportation was barely an issue after the mass mechanization of supply lines, as standard cargo trucks could easily carry up to 105mm cannons. Not to mention trains, which are also silently factored into the game and could carry just about any sized cannon. In fact, the US started WWII using 75mm field artillery and increased it to 105 without any significant changes to supply chains. And obviously, a larger caliber equals longer range.
      In the modern day, the goal might be to focus on shell R&D since cannons larger than 150mm are impractical on the modern battlefield, but that wasn't the case during WWII when artillery technology was still developing.
      Please note that bridges, roads and railways are the first thing to get destroyed, bombarded or sabotaged. The bigger the artillery the larger the need of infrastructure and how slower they will arrive on the front. The perfect example of that is the RRG in COW which is the slowest land unit there is.
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    • We had varied arty ranges in CoW 1.0

      It's not difficult -
      "By the time of Operation TORCH in November 1942, the Army had deployed an entire family of new guns. The M1 75mm pack howitzer, with a range of 8,880 meters (5.5 miles) for mountain, airborne, and jungle use, was put into service, and anything larger than a bicycle could move it. Two types of 105mm howitzers were assigned to infantry divisions. Each infantry regiment had a cannon company of short barreled M3 105mm howitzers that fired a reduced power round out to 7,600 meters (4.7 miles) for direct support. British historian Max Hastings has written that the Army withdrew the M3 from all but the airborne infantry late in the war, but that is inconsistent with the evidence available to the author. Each infantry division had three battalions of twelve M2 105mm howitzers, one battalion for each of the division’s three infantry regiments. The M2 105mm howitzer had a range about 12,000 meters (7.5 miles)."
      "Es gibt keine verzweifelten Lagen, es gibt nur verzweifelte Menschen" - There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people.
      General Heinz Guderian (Schneller Heinz)

      Kenny says - You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away And know when to run
    • dw98 wrote:

      We had varied arty ranges in CoW 1.0
      I know we did :whistling:


      dw98 wrote:

      "By the time of Operation TORCH in November 1942, the Army had deployed an entire family of new guns. The M1 75mm pack howitzer, with a range of 8,880 meters (5.5 miles) for mountain, airborne, and jungle use, was put into service, and anything larger than a bicycle could move it. Two types of 105mm howitzers were assigned to infantry divisions. Each infantry regiment had a cannon company of short barreled M3 105mm howitzers that fired a reduced power round out to 7,600 meters (4.7 miles) for direct support. British historian Max Hastings has written that the Army withdrew the M3 from all but the airborne infantry late in the war, but that is inconsistent with the evidence available to the author. Each infantry division had three battalions of twelve M2 105mm howitzers, one battalion for each of the division’s three infantry regiments. The M2 105mm howitzer had a range about 12,000 meters (7.5 miles)."
      Damn you mean business :) I agree that during the game we should be able to produce artillery with a longer range. Your old ones shouldn't be upgraded though as they can't just increase the range of old artillery pieces.
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    • Ranges don't increase due to balancing reasons, not because of any realism assumptions.
      Artilleries already receive a damage+HP buff when upgrading that is comparable to the damage buff+HP of other units. If we added greater range, this would increase the buff by a lot, because even a pixel higher range would mean that you can outrange your enemy without taking any damage.
      Another issue is usability: If you had artillery on multiple levels in your stack, all with different ranges, only the one with the biggest range would fire if your army stops to fire at its outer circle. Micromanagement would increase and overview would decrease.
    • BMfox wrote:

      dw98 wrote:

      We had varied arty ranges in CoW 1.0
      I know we did :whistling:

      dw98 wrote:

      "By the time of Operation TORCH in November 1942, the Army had deployed an entire family of new guns. The M1 75mm pack howitzer, with a range of 8,880 meters (5.5 miles) for mountain, airborne, and jungle use, was put into service, and anything larger than a bicycle could move it. Two types of 105mm howitzers were assigned to infantry divisions. Each infantry regiment had a cannon company of short barreled M3 105mm howitzers that fired a reduced power round out to 7,600 meters (4.7 miles) for direct support. British historian Max Hastings has written that the Army withdrew the M3 from all but the airborne infantry late in the war, but that is inconsistent with the evidence available to the author. Each infantry division had three battalions of twelve M2 105mm howitzers, one battalion for each of the division’s three infantry regiments. The M2 105mm howitzer had a range about 12,000 meters (7.5 miles)."
      Damn you mean business :) I agree that during the game we should be able to produce artillery with a longer range. Your old ones shouldn't be upgraded though as they can't just increase the range of old artillery pieces.
      In that case tanks shouldn't be able to be upgraded into new vehicles that have higher HP
    • whowh wrote:

      In that case tanks shouldn't be able to be upgraded into new vehicles that have higher HP
      You can easily put a new engine in a vehicle and add extra armor for example. However for artillery it's not like you can change the barrel of the gun (I think :))
      BMfox
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    • BMfox wrote:

      whowh wrote:

      In that case tanks shouldn't be able to be upgraded into new vehicles that have higher HP
      You can easily put a new engine in a vehicle and add extra armor for example. However for artillery it's not like you can change the barrel of the gun (I think :))
      You can :)
      But besides that, none of the vehicles depicted as upgrades are the same vehicle as earlier but with modifications (iirc). They are all separate vehicles entirely. So it should make sense that upgrading an artillery isnt just swapping out the barrel, but creating a new gun entirely. And since (in allied tree at least) all upgrades of artillery are described as higher caliber than previous levels, it should make sense that range should change as well. On that topic, I think range should change for several units including naval units.