Artillery Deploy Time and Packing up time

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    • If you want the Bytro take on this:

      In our view shoot'n'scoot is an unintended exploit that we do not want in the game. Just to be on the same page, shoot'n'scoot is when you attack a ranged unit with another ranged unit but pull back your own ranged unit so fast that the server does not react in time to issue counter-fire. We are not talking about the balancing between arties and tanks here for example. As long as shoot'n'scoot is in the game you are free to use it of course. But the only reason why it is still in the game is because so far it did not get priority and enough resources to be fixed. But it is still on our list to do something about it at some point, for example by adding a movement delay after fireing for all ranged units so that the other ranged army has time to respond (it wouldnt be as long as suggested earlier in this thread though).

      This is not so much about unit balance for us, but about the fact that this is a grand strategy game, not an action game. And this game runs 24/7, so naturally there are phases were a player cannot respond. So any tactic that requires extreme levels of activity and micromanagement, and that allows beating players who are currently offline with 0 casualties, is not in the spirit of the game. To less experienced player it is very disheartening and it also looks totally bugged to see your own units die to the same enemy unit type for some unexplained reason.

      If we ever did such a change (I cannot tell when this happens) and see that this nerfs ranged units too much, we would buff their other stats (e.g. damage) or increase their normal move speed to make up for it. As I said, it's not about changing unit balance but about balancing game mechanics and bringing them in line with the type of game this is.
    • freezy wrote:

      In our view shoot'n'scoot is an unintended exploit that we do not want in the game.
      yes shoot and scoot in fire fight of two artillery stacks, or ships is weird, but shoot and retreat by "doomstack"-rush is not.

      Thread opener threw two issues together, one of that is not exploit, but taktik.

      shoot and scoot would be solved easy on two way: immediatly backfire of enemy stack after ranged attack (conflict of nation solved it so) or 20 till 30 second pick up time for ranged units.

      Proposals of 15 till 30 minutes are more then nonsense.

      Lying of "need more taktiks" while use only single doomstack rush is not correct way.


      Constructive suggestions of speed nerfing, was not even mentioned.
      In CoW 1.0 artillery was weaker then now, and most experienced players used a way more artillery units than now.
      Wrong nerfing would not solve this issue, but make it even worse.
    • freezy wrote:

      (it wouldnt be as long as suggested earlier in this thread though).
      As in maybe a few seconds or more to allow counterfire?

      And @scuffed, just because he's beating you does not mean he is doing something that should be banned. Maybe they are just the better player.
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    • There is a way to deal with this stack that no one has suggested yet. Railroad Guns.
      Go to Spite is Right’s wall and tell him to come back. “We have 90 chances in our favor and not 10 against us.”- Napoleon before Waterloo. “Stupid is as stupid does.”-Forrest Gump
    • You'd need like 8 RRG for that. If a stack like that is coming you don't have the time to produce 8 RRG and to move them to the front. By then you are finished. You need a solution with the troops that you have already available and produced.

      BrutusTrump wrote:

      There is a way to deal with this stack that no one has suggested yet. Railroad Guns.
      BMfox

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    • whowh wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      (it wouldnt be as long as suggested earlier in this thread though).
      As in maybe a few seconds or more to allow counterfire?
      And @scuffed, just because he's beating you does not mean he is doing something that should be banned. Maybe they are just the better player.
      never said he should be banned, just saying that this game mechanic makes rounds not fun and doesn't make him a better player because he can use a cheesy "tactic" the entire game, one trick pony.

      I wouldn't really call it a nerf but a re-work. It would add more depth to using artillery imo if you have to take into account the deploy time and pack up time of arty when using it on an offensive push. You would have to make sure you can't be flanked from a position that leaves your arty vulnerable from behind and would add a more risk/reward factor in the game with this rework.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by scuffed ().

    • scuffed wrote:

      just saying that this game mechanic makes rounds not fun and doesn't make him a better player because he can use a cheesy "tactic" the entire game, one trick pony.

      I wouldn't really call it a nerf but a re-work. It would add more depth to using artillery imo if you have to take into account the deploy time and pack up time of arty when using it on an offensive push. You would have to make sure you can't be flanked from a position that leaves your arty vulnerable from behind and would add a more risk/reward factor in the game with this rework.
      This mechanic make for sure much fun. For example you have war against two enemies, so you use 80 til 90 % your troops for this wars, while only 10% till 20% are used for defence main chockpoints and core cities.

      3rd opponent start attacking you with 20er stracks of closecombat units. You have no time send your battle strikeforces to secure against new threat. Even your airforce cant be moved completly to new area, and even then, airforces are already damaged and would get heavy losses.
      So you build quick force of single artillery and try slow down this enemy. Each hour yor artillery get reinforcement of, closecombat, antiair or ranged unit, so after a while you have may be 6 units vs 3 20er stacks. But yes, enemy player is one of those who play several round same time, send his "doomstacks" to conquer whole enemy within 3/4 days while player is not online very often.

      And you see: it is very fun, if single cannon regiment or division can destroy 3 20er doomstack without single unit losses.

      Without exploit, because enemy doesn't have own artillery.


      Good player already make sure, that their artillery couldn't be flanked.
      Deploy time would for sure nerf attack vallue of artillery, because defender with already deployed artillery would shot every time first, so we get another issue like air patrol, where defender has advantage, if attacker does not have at least double numbers of stacks on patrol.

      And Again: every nerfing of ranged units would end in even more numbers of ranged units on battlefields, so your dream of steamrolling with lighttanks only would be even less reacheble.

      And sorry you are bad player, you are bad strategy game player, yoe are, poor skilled at planning, preparation and execution of warfare plan.

      There is already possible to smash artillery division defended by closecombat and /or antiair defence with own closecombat only units. I dont write here a quide how. I teach only players, who are ready for that. You aren't.

      Your main issue was: injured closecombat units have not any chances to catch healthy artillery. Sorry, It is not bug or imballance, it is a really good kind of simulation feature.
    • vietcong2005 wrote:

      newbgamer101 wrote:

      Guys just attack it from the air... A stack of Tactical Bombers will do the job so well you could swap 1 or 2 of them for escort fighters. And if the enemy has air cover then just stop complaining, they're just the better player.

      Edit: For realisms sake I would like to see artillery either not be able to move once an attack is made or not be able to attack when moving. A pack up time is largely unrealistic considering the time scale of this game.
      There's something called anti air. You obviously haven't met a good player if you haven't seen one.
      its not like they have level 3-4 anti air, if you have 10+ planes attacking it to get rid of the artillery, the anti air wont really disturb you unless its level 3-4
    • BMfox wrote:

      scuffed wrote:

      "The setback of artillery is that it's slow and very week in melee battle." - Like i said, they will have other units grouped up with them in case you get too close for comfort to send them to defend the arty, then group them back up with the arty when your units are dead.
      Well you are supposed to have different unit branches in your stack as well to balance out the weaknesses. That's hardly an argument. Your whole proposal is a nerf so that you can be able to kill artillery stacks. Well you can with an artillery stack of your own and with bombers.

      scuffed wrote:

      "They are also very vounerable against air attack." - They are going to have AA with their arty as well as the other units for melee attack protection as i mentioned above. So this won't work either unless you want to waste all your bombers on one single stack of units.
      Yes of course, because every player uses AA right. So basicly you want to nerf artillery because you haven't found the answer on how to counter an artillery stack? Well all the units that protect artillery stacks are unarmored: anti tank, anti air, infantry, artillery. Make a stack of motorized and mechanize infantry and lock those arty in mêlée battle. Now that the stack is locked in mêlée battle you can bring in your own artillery and bombard it to oblivion.
      you can also split your troops you don’t need to attack with 15 stacks. If they have artillery for each set of splits, they wont have high leveled Anti Air for each one, and they wont have amazing units stacked within it, for each one..