Balancing change feedback (2021-11-10)

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    • Balancing change feedback (2021-11-10)

      As you have probably read in the release news, we have released balancing changes today (Nov. 10th 2021). They only take effect in game rounds created after this update.

      You can use this thread to give your detailed thoughts and feedback on the changes, if you wish. A list of changes can be found in the linked release news.

    • Well, you nerfed some of my favorite units :)

      You all may have data on this, but my assumption is that comintern players tend to go heavier on rocket artillery and SPRA due to the earlier research dates and the buff to the SP version. I'm concerned that the nerfs to those units may offset some of the buffs given to comintern to balance it against other doctrines. All in all, the changes look interesting and it'll be fun to see how they pan out.

    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Well, you nerfed some of my favorite units :)

      You all may have data on this, but my assumption is that comintern players tend to go heavier on rocket artillery and SPRA due to the earlier research dates and the buff to the SP version. I'm concerned that the nerfs to those units may offset some of the buffs given to comintern to balance it against other doctrines. All in all, the changes look interesting and it'll be fun to see how they pan out.
      but the changes also affects other doctrines so isn't it still the same?

    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Well, you nerfed some of my favorite units :)

      You all may have data on this, but my assumption is that comintern players tend to go heavier on rocket artillery and SPRA due to the earlier research dates and the buff to the SP version. I'm concerned that the nerfs to those units may offset some of the buffs given to comintern to balance it against other doctrines. All in all, the changes look interesting and it'll be fun to see how they pan out.
      yeah rip rocket artillery
      "I don't know jeff!"

      Chris kamara

    • Damn, the rare resources and manpower have been reduced. This is very bad news for the comintern doctrine.
      On top of it Rocket Artillery: Damage reduced slightly, Costs increased slightly, Production time increased slightly, Research time increased slightly.

      Luckily for comintern there's a least a little light at the end of the tunnel being the fact that the upkeep cost reduction of the Comintern Doctrine was increased from -25% to -30%. Medium Tanks: a Damage buff of +10% vs. all armor classes was added and a production time improvement of -15% was added.

      I think the victory ratios for comintern are about to drop.

      Interceptors that have been nerfed, that's no surprise 2/1 wasn't fair for the defender. So now it's more balanced.

      Also all artillery kinds have been nerfed, even though a bit it will still have it's impact.

      I'm happy with the AI changes though. Finally it's over with the AA spams and they will actually use more useful units. In return this means that players will have more fun attacking them.

      Players will be happy that the chance has decreased that the AI won't attack you when you have a lot of wars going on. The last you need is that an AI makes your situation even worse.

      That the trade embargo isn't published anymore in the newspaper is a good thing. It just resulted in a huge spam for large maps.

      Finally the decreaced manpower and rare resources in the start of a new game will have some serious complications for the Alliance vs Alliance in the current Alliance World Cup 4. I'm not sure how that will turn out, but we'll discover sooner rather than later.

      For the ones interested, I made a YouTube video on my channel about these release notes:
      BMfox
      Moderator
      EN Community Support | Bytro Gmbh

      Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/BMfoxCallofWar


      Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!

    • Comintern as a doctrine was always best in the very early game.
      No wonder, considering people start with non-armored units and heavy armor is only available later in the game.

      Rocket artillery was in that case main Comintern early focus. Or rather any faction focus if you wanted to remove enemy units quickly and from range. Comintern however did have access to them early.

      I feel like research being longer, as well as production times does make sense if the goal is to make other unit types also have a valid fight-back chance in the very early stage of the game.

      EDIT: Besides, the damage went from 3.8 to 3.5 per attack.
      0.3 damage, but... only on the first level unit. Level 2 and 3 were untouched.
      Production times are more important, making it harder to just spam it.

      Good balance for the early game.
      Doesn't really affect the end-game.

      ----

      On the other side, we have buffs to medium tank, upkeep costs etc.

      Those things usually matter more when it comes to the late game.
      Upkeep will matter more when you have more units, but new provinces only give you 25% of what starting ones do after all.

      Does it give the fighting chance it needed to start winning in long public matches?
      It might help it. But doesn't necessarily guarantee it.

      Comintern lacks on terms of airforce. With penalties both to fighters as well as SP Anti-air.
      So when the game starts turning into long-frontline battles, with a lot of planes flying to support... it's gonna be problematic.

      To sum up:
      Comintern will stay what it is - a doctrine which main task is to get your advantage early and then steamroll everyone.
      It will have bit harder time to do this. It might have bit easier time in the endgame even if they don't do this.

      So in general I would say it makes this faction bit less "swingy" and balanced.
      Not balanced in terms of comparison with other factions, but rather in balance with itself.

    • I really like the new strategic bomber range, i ve test already their power on a Frontline pioneer and it's really a great unit now, before I just use them to destroy enemy air bases and if was lucky destroy their nearest production buildings, now i really can destroy the enemy economy, probably now they are too powerful but I need a more "intense" game to really say so, in my experience the enemy now can't actually adapt to my strategy, when they see the bombers it's already late, their cities are no more.

      Another thing, i always feel allies lack something to really say they are great, they were good at what they do but the others are just better, now probably they are the best, most of the economic changes benefit the allies overall. So I like the changes.



      Btw less manpower it's great for Comintern, other doctrines will run out of manpower earlier but Comintern can keep spamming and upgrading when others run out of manpower
      "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"

    • Z. Sakki wrote:

      roz2roz wrote:

      Besides, the damage went from 3.6 to 3.5 per attack.
      It's not a massive change.
      Ok so it's just a 0.1 dmg reduction. Wish they put the actual change instead of just saying 'reduced slightly'
      Sorry, looked at the wrong data.

      It's 3.8 to 3.5.
      0.3 reduction.

      However, it's only on level 1 unit.
      Level 2 and 3 are untouched.

      This pretty much makes sense if a goal is to weaken the very first days for it, before people can develop heavy armor to counter it.

      As long as I don't see this again on day 3 ever again, I'm happy. (You could have around 30-40 rocket artilleries on day 3 as Comintern before patch)
      Display Spoiler

    • Z. Sakki wrote:

      Why aren't they stacked when they're all in the same location?
      Because only up to 10 units at once, ones which are strongest in a given situation, are counted when dealing damage.

      Having a stack of more than 10 artillery at once especially of the same type is pointless, and hence players separated it to deal more damage.

      Basically, count each stack to have 10 artillery as well as some other units to "soak" damage.

      That was the current "meta" for the early game rush on Comintern.

    • Danieliyoverde123 wrote:

      Another thing, i always feel allies lack something to really say they are great, they were good at what they do but the others are just better, now probably they are the best, most of the economic changes benefit the allies overall. So I like the changes.
      I'm writing an Allies doctrine guide and so I've been testing it extensively and I have to say that the doctrine is mediocre. Only their tactical bomber and SP artillery really stand out. Their navy is the weakest of the four doctrines and the 10% speed penalty is killing me. Allies gameplay is so slow and boring. I'm playing BC which has a lot of mountains and hills and the early game was just a drag.
      BMfox
      Moderator
      EN Community Support | Bytro Gmbh

      Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/BMfoxCallofWar


      Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!

    • BMfox wrote:

      Danieliyoverde123 wrote:

      Another thing, i always feel allies lack something to really say they are great, they were good at what they do but the others are just better, now probably they are the best, most of the economic changes benefit the allies overall. So I like the changes.
      I'm writing an Allies doctrine guide and so I've been testing it extensively and I have to say that the doctrine is mediocre. Only their tactical bomber and SP artillery really stand out. Their navy is the weakest of the four doctrines and the 10% speed penalty is killing me. Allies gameplay is so slow and boring. I'm playing BC which has a lot of mountains and hills and the early game was just a drag.
      agreed but we are talking about this balance patch, whatever was true before now it's not. Allies recibe more buffs overall and the economy changes benefit allies the most Btw you should really test their new strategic bombers
      "Si crees que esto tendrá un final feliz, es que no has estado prestando atención"

    • BMfox wrote:

      Danieliyoverde123 wrote:

      Another thing, i always feel allies lack something to really say they are great, they were good at what they do but the others are just better, now probably they are the best, most of the economic changes benefit the allies overall. So I like the changes.
      I'm writing an Allies doctrine guide and so I've been testing it extensively and I have to say that the doctrine is mediocre. Only their tactical bomber and SP artillery really stand out. Their navy is the weakest of the four doctrines and the 10% speed penalty is killing me. Allies gameplay is so slow and boring. I'm playing BC which has a lot of mountains and hills and the early game was just a drag.
      Paradoxically I don't think allies should excel in anything?
      Except for airforce that is.

      Allies penalty for speed does not necessarily affect planes that much.

      And theirs doctrine bonuses for faster research and faster production allows you to produce units you currently need to support your main army core.
      Meanwhile leaving the unnecessary ones for later. Saving some upkeep costs.

      For example, you could use your long-range tactical bombers to scout the enemy you will be fighting next and check out that he went mostly for the tanks. Your bonuses allow you to research higher-level tank destroyers and produce/upgrade them on time.

      After the current patch you can also use strategic bombers for the same task, due to way higher range.
      Just for scouting, yeah.

      Also researching fighters 2 days earlier allows keeping your bombers safe.
      And researching nuclear bombers earlier allows you to clear enemy massive stacks way sooner than he can clear yours.

      So in general - strong airforce.
      The main army being mediocre is fine and probably should stay that way, because of theirs ability to adapt to any situation.
      If allies start to excel in something when it comes to land army, the whole point of being able to adapt would be gone, since some units would be stronger than others.

    • roz2roz wrote:

      Z. Sakki wrote:

      Why aren't they stacked when they're all in the same location?
      Because only up to 10 units at once, ones which are strongest in a given situation, are counted when dealing damage.
      Having a stack of more than 10 artillery at once especially of the same type is pointless, and hence players separated it to deal more damage.

      Basically, count each stack to have 10 artillery as well as some other units to "soak" damage.

      That was the current "meta" for the early game rush on Comintern.
      Yes I know about separating 10 arty for maximum dmg.

      Im just wondering how they're not stacked when they're all standing in same spot? I swear I've read somewhere that this has been patched out and units standing in the same spot will be stacked.

    • Z. Sakki wrote:

      roz2roz wrote:

      Z. Sakki wrote:

      Why aren't they stacked when they're all in the same location?
      Because only up to 10 units at once, ones which are strongest in a given situation, are counted when dealing damage.Having a stack of more than 10 artillery at once especially of the same type is pointless, and hence players separated it to deal more damage.

      Basically, count each stack to have 10 artillery as well as some other units to "soak" damage.

      That was the current "meta" for the early game rush on Comintern.
      Yes I know about separating 10 arty for maximum dmg.
      Im just wondering how they're not stacked when they're all standing in same spot? I swear I've read somewhere that this has been patched out and units standing in the same spot will be stacked.
      Not if they are currently performing any action (combat in this case).

      That helps avoid some issues, like different reload times in the case of artillery.
      Or just randomly merging two armies to happen to walk in the same direction :P

    • Thanks for the nice feedback so far guys :)

      Z. Sakki wrote:

      I swear I've read somewhere that this has been patched out and units standing in the same spot will be stacked.
      That was a slightly different thing. We made it so split units in the same location still have a shared stack limit when dealing out defensive damage, to fix the so called "flower defense exploit". But we didnt change how units merge or not merge on the map.