Hospitals? No, something better!

Coringa- · Dec 16th 2021, 10:57am

NO! It's not a hospital suggestion, although this subject has already been discussed several times and it seems that Bytro doesn't care much about this build, perhaps because he doesn't want to be too similar to the company's other games. But I have a revolutionary idea when it comes to "fixing the life" of units, because in a war there are always doctors or mechanics to use, tear or damage.

A suggestion here, because instead of adding a hospital, building that fix the troops' lives or creating a unit with a doctor, you don't do the following:

As the system to improve the units, create one more option, which can recover your HP. Taking into account that when starting this repair (a set time) they will have the same attributes as a unit update. Do they remain immobile, cannot be canceled and would there be a resource cost to do so? I think it would be an innovative idea instead of putting hospitals or other units. Since, to fix a tank you would have to fix it in the same place you are (due to the lack of winch for mechanics) or heal the wounded (due to the lack of medical units).

What do you think of this?

BMfox · Dec 16th 2021, 1:50pm

There are already medical staff in the units as one unit represents a brigade. Players often forget this detail. You might be able to repair a tank but a damaged tank also means casualties among its crew and you can't bring the dead back to life. Same for an infantry unit which represents 970 men. If that infantry brigade is at 50% health that means that 485 men have died and you cant bring them back to life. The only possibility to reinforce understrength brigades is producing a new brigade and merge it with your existing one. The recruits will be spread over all existing brigades and by doing so you will augment their numbers.

Coringa- · Dec 16th 2021, 1:54pm

BMfox wrote:

There are already medical staff in the units as one unit represents a brigade. Players often forget this detail. You might be able to repair a tank but a damaged tank also means casualties among its crew and you can't bring the dead back to life. Same for an infantry unit which represents 970 men. If that infantry brigade is at 50% health that means that 485 men have died and you cant bring them back to life. The only possibility to reinforce understrength brigades is producing a new brigade and merge it with your existing one. The recruits will be spread over all existing brigades and by doing so you will augment their numbers.

so you want to tell me that at the turn of the day they resurrect?

renzitormix2020 · Dec 16th 2021, 2:42pm

Coringa- wrote:

BMfox wrote:

There are already medical staff in the units as one unit represents a brigade. Players often forget this detail. You might be able to repair a tank but a damaged tank also means casualties among its crew and you can't bring the dead back to life. Same for an infantry unit which represents 970 men. If that infantry brigade is at 50% health that means that 485 men have died and you cant bring them back to life. The only possibility to reinforce understrength brigades is producing a new brigade and merge it with your existing one. The recruits will be spread over all existing brigades and by doing so you will augment their numbers.

so you want to tell me that at the turn of the day they resurrect?

XD Although the explanation of bmfox is precise, it only counts the dead, it is not only necessary to be dead to be knocked out, the impact points I think does not count the life or the dead, what counts is the combat capacity of the unit, this would be a little more precise because after a day, the impact points recover a little, the soldiers could be knocked out due to an injury, which will need rest to heal (not necessarily fatal or very serious ), this would be what I think is most accurate to describe the statistics of the impact points. For units such as tanks, airplanes and ships, it would be similar, the day that passes until their impact points recover is the time they need for them to be repaired, although the only unit that does not make sense to me are the ships since they can regain their hit points anywhere, unlike ground and air units, which only repair themselves if they are in your territory.

Donk2.0 · Dec 16th 2021, 3:44pm

BMfox wrote:

There are already medical staff in the units as one unit represents a brigade. Players often forget this detail. You might be able to repair a tank but a damaged tank also means casualties among its crew and you can't bring the dead back to life. Same for an infantry unit which represents 970 men. If that infantry brigade is at 50% health that means that 485 men have died and you cant bring them back to life. The only possibility to reinforce understrength brigades is producing a new brigade and merge it with your existing one. The recruits will be spread over all existing brigades and by doing so you will augment their numbers.

The cost of repair would include the manpower needed, so in this case, 485. I think that this is definitely a suggestion that should be implemented. Here's a poll:

Coringa- · Dec 16th 2021, 3:54pm

Donk2.0 wrote:

BMfox wrote:

There are already medical staff in the units as one unit represents a brigade. Players often forget this detail. You might be able to repair a tank but a damaged tank also means casualties among its crew and you can't bring the dead back to life. Same for an infantry unit which represents 970 men. If that infantry brigade is at 50% health that means that 485 men have died and you cant bring them back to life. The only possibility to reinforce understrength brigades is producing a new brigade and merge it with your existing one. The recruits will be spread over all existing brigades and by doing so you will augment their numbers.

The cost of repair would include the manpower needed, so in this case, 485. I think that this is definitely a suggestion that should be implemented. Here's a poll:

said everything!

BMfox · Dec 16th 2021, 4:12pm

renzitormix2020 wrote:

XD Although the explanation of bmfox is precise, it only counts the dead, it is not only necessary to be dead to be knocked out, the impact points I think does not count the life or the dead, what counts is the combat capacity of the unit, this would be a little more precise because after a day, the impact points recover a little, the soldiers could be knocked out due to an injury, which will need rest to heal (not necessarily fatal or very serious ), this would be what I think is most accurate to describe the statistics of the impact points. For units such as tanks, airplanes and ships, it would be similar, the day that passes until their impact points recover is the time they need for them to be repaired, although the only unit that does not make sense to me are the ships since they can regain their hit points anywhere, unlike ground and air units, which only repair themselves if they are in your territory.

The lightly injured rejoining their unit are a minority. Those are already represented by the 15% healing mechanic at day change. Most of the casualties are either dead or severely wounded and many wounded die on the battlefield because there's to many injured and the field hospitals are still far away from the fronline.

Coringa- wrote:

so you want to tell me that at the turn of the day they resurrect?

Again, lightly injured are rejoining their unit and reinforcements in the form of new recruits.

Coringa- · Dec 16th 2021, 4:16pm

BMfox wrote:

renzitormix2020 wrote:

XD Although the explanation of bmfox is precise, it only counts the dead, it is not only necessary to be dead to be knocked out, the impact points I think does not count the life or the dead, what counts is the combat capacity of the unit, this would be a little more precise because after a day, the impact points recover a little, the soldiers could be knocked out due to an injury, which will need rest to heal (not necessarily fatal or very serious ), this would be what I think is most accurate to describe the statistics of the impact points. For units such as tanks, airplanes and ships, it would be similar, the day that passes until their impact points recover is the time they need for them to be repaired, although the only unit that does not make sense to me are the ships since they can regain their hit points anywhere, unlike ground and air units, which only repair themselves if they are in your territory.

The lightly injured rejoining their unit are a minority. Those are already represented by the 15% healing mechanic at day change. Most of the casualties are either dead or severely wounded and many wounded die on the battlefield because there's to many injured and the field hospitals are still far away from the fronline.

Coringa- wrote:

so you want to tell me that at the turn of the day they resurrect?

Again, lightly injured are rejoining their unit and reinforcements in the form of new recruits.

Great post, but your arguments are insufficient.

BMfox · Dec 16th 2021, 4:28pm

Coringa- wrote:

Great post, but your arguments are insufficient.

No it's your proposal that is not only insufficient but completely unrealistic:

Coringa- wrote:

"fixing the life" of units, because in a war there are always doctors or mechanics to use, tear or damage.

You fail to understand that one unit is a brigade. As a consequence there are already doctors and mechanics in each unit which is represented by the daily 15% of the damage that is restored.

Coringa- wrote:

As the system to improve the units, create one more option, which can recover your HP. Taking into account that when starting this repair (a set time) they will have the same attributes as a unit update. Do they remain immobile, cannot be canceled and would there be a resource cost to do so?

Your proposal is with a magic want replacing troops that died with new men that are magically completely trained? If you want to increase your HP the only thing you need to do is to produce a new unit and merge them together.

Tolol_aja · Dec 16th 2021, 4:59pm

do you know you can heal unit with gold right?? if that feature are removed then bytro will lose one of their income source!

thanks to major golder player i've meet yesterday, now bytro can hire progammer or marketing guy or even creative team or something else to apply my idea about submarine launching plane/flying bomb.

they also can sponsoring famous youtube channel to gain more players with highcommand and 13k gold as gift.

they don't care about making best online game after all

K.Rokossovski · Dec 16th 2021, 10:08pm

There might be a tech branch though to improve the standard 15%.

BMfox · Dec 16th 2021, 11:18pm

Donk2.0 wrote:

The cost of repair would include the manpower needed, so in this case, 485. I think that this is definitely a suggestion that should be implemented. Here's a poll:

You can't just find out of the blue new recruits at the frontline. The men are recruited and trained in your country or in allied territory like the British did before D-day. It simply makes no sense to me.

Coringa- · Dec 17th 2021, 12:45am

BMfox wrote:

Donk2.0 wrote:

The cost of repair would include the manpower needed, so in this case, 485. I think that this is definitely a suggestion that should be implemented. Here's a poll:

You can't just find out of the blue new recruits at the frontline. The men are recruited and trained in your country or in allied territory like the British did before D-day. It simply makes no sense to me.

I don't know what your intention is. You are trying to spoil the argument that was proposed. Why don't you have a better one. You have to accept that we are suffering for lack of a system that restores a better life, you can't deny that, my friends say the same thing, the community says the same thing. Or are you the best in the world that you don't need it? Look at you.

BMfox · Dec 17th 2021, 1:14am

Coringa- wrote:

I don't know what your intention is. You are trying to spoil the argument that was proposed. Why don't you have a better one. You have to accept that we are suffering for lack of a system that restores a better life, you can't deny that, my friends say the same thing, the community says the same thing. Or are you the best in the world that you don't need it? Look at you.

Casualties are the way of war and in WWII, brigades were operating understrength all the time. You lose men, you train new ones and you send them to the front. Such is the way of war. What you want to create is something completely unrealistic just so you could have it easier. Of course plenty people in the community want it easier but a strategy game isn't supposed to be easy. The mechanic that you propose would heal up all your units, you would never lose units, your KD would improve. It would also unbalance the game, your enemy would be harder to kill and everyone would have large armies. Economy would become less important as you don't have to replace your units all the time. Battles would be less strategic too. Why being careful about terrain bonusses or using the right counter unit if you can heal them up afterwards? See where I'm getting at? Your proposal might seem attractive but it would unbalance the game and it would make it less interesting.

Z. Sakki · Dec 17th 2021, 3:36am

Yeah I agree with BMfox here. Having the ability to heal units would just be boring. The game's all about trades anyway - the damage you deal vs the damage you take. If you could just heal units then there'd be no incentive for actually thinking you're moves as it doesn't matter if your units get badly damaged because you can just heal them.

The low heal encourages careful and strategic planning. Let's say your currently facing an enemy with a 10 and a 5 stack infantry and you have a 10 artillery and a 10 mot. infantry stack of your own.
• Option 1 is to not commit the mot. infantry stack and just bombard the 2 enemy stacks with your artillery stack one after the other. You wouldn't take any damage but this would eat up a lot of time.
• A more time-friendly alternative would be to mow down the 10 stack down with your mot. infantry stack while the 5 stack gets bombarded by your artillery stack. It'd be quick as unlike option 1, 100% of your force is dealing damage and the mot. infantry is committed against the 10 stack as it is better vs unarmored. The downside is that your mot. infantry stack would take massive damage and you'd be at a disadvantage if a new war with a different country breaks out especially if his troops are fresh and unscathed.
• Option 3 is to bombard the 10 stack with your artillery stack and commit the mot. infantry stack against the enemy 5 stack. This would be a compromise between option 1 and option 2. It'd be a much quicker than option 1 but slower than option 2 as the artillery is faced up against the much bulkier 10 stack and it isn't as effective in killing unarmored units as the mot. infantry stack. And like option 2, your mot. infantry stack would take damage although not as big as it committed against the much weaker 5 stack.

It's up to you to weigh these things out as all 3 options have their own pros and cons. If healing were introduced, the 2nd option would always be the clear choice. The only downside of option 2 is the great deal of damage the mot. infantry stack receives, but with healing introduced, this would be completely nullified. And that would make the game very one-dimensional. I'd much rather have it not be introduced to the game.

Coringa- · Dec 17th 2021, 11:09am

BMfox wrote:

Coringa- wrote:

I don't know what your intention is. You are trying to spoil the argument that was proposed. Why don't you have a better one. You have to accept that we are suffering for lack of a system that restores a better life, you can't deny that, my friends say the same thing, the community says the same thing. Or are you the best in the world that you don't need it? Look at you.

Casualties are the way of war and in WWII, brigades were operating understrength all the time. You lose men, you train new ones and you send them to the front. Such is the way of war. What you want to create is something completely unrealistic just so you could have it easier. Of course plenty people in the community want it easier but a strategy game isn't supposed to be easy. The mechanic that you propose would heal up all your units, you would never lose units, your KD would improve. It would also unbalance the game, your enemy would be harder to kill and everyone would have large armies. Economy would become less important as you don't have to replace your units all the time. Battles would be less strategic too. Why being careful about terrain bonusses or using the right counter unit if you can heal them up afterwards? See where I'm getting at? Your proposal might seem attractive but it would unbalance the game and it would make it less interesting.

you say this as if the opponent hasn't included the same benefit. I'm talking here about running the country and not KD.

Tolol_aja · Dec 17th 2021, 11:14am

let's just say my opinion/argumen are too strong, even nobody want to reply it and simply ignore it cus they can't beat it.

you guys bother bytro's income tbh, my idea had more sense and they ignore it, just only one guy idk the name but he suggest bytro to add paratrooper and they apply it to the game.

BMfox · Dec 17th 2021, 2:36pm

Coringa- wrote:

I don't know what your intention is. You are trying to spoil the argument that was proposed. Why don't you have a better one. You have to accept that we are suffering for lack of a system that restores a better life, you can't deny that, my friends say the same thing, the community says the same thing. Or are you the best in the world that you don't need it? Look at you.

Really, seems like you are exaggerating a bit there. Seems that the Discord expert players are on my side on this one.

Z. Sakki · Dec 17th 2021, 3:22pm

@Tolol_aja idk man, that was kind of a weird one tbh. Could just be me tho.

Coringa- · Dec 17th 2021, 9:06pm

BMfox wrote:

Coringa- wrote:

I don't know what your intention is. You are trying to spoil the argument that was proposed. Why don't you have a better one. You have to accept that we are suffering for lack of a system that restores a better life, you can't deny that, my friends say the same thing, the community says the same thing. Or are you the best in the world that you don't need it? Look at you.

Really, seems like you are exaggerating a bit there. Seems that the Discord expert players are on my side on this one.

I'll hunt them down on some map. Let's see if they really are an expert.

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