Should I use SP Units

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    • Should I use SP Units

      Hi Everyone,

      This is my first post...I am hoping to get some opinions on SP units. My next game is going to be the 22 person game and I will be playing as a Commitern country for the first time. I have used SP units in the past, and really like them because of their ability to get away from the enemy with their extra speed. But on a 22 person map, which i find typically ends around day 11 or 12...is it worth it to invest in SP units? Also, with Commitern, i noticed that they can't research SP AA until day 6. So is it worthwhile to invest in SP units if you can only use them for about 5 days before the game ends? Also, for people who think it is worthwhile to build SP units in this scenario, do you continue to upgrade the Non-SP units that you have (AA, Rocket Art and Artillary)? Seems expensive to do high levels of research on both the non-SP units and the SP units at the same time (for example, researching high levels of AA and SPAA at the same time). Any comments on this thread are appreciated, but I am hoping that there can be some explanation and depth behind some of the answers, to help me weigh the pros and cons of this. For example, I estimate that i could have approximately 18 extra non-SP units if I skip the SP research and just build non-SP units...is it worth giving away 18 extra units to have SP units?? If you think it is worth it, explain why. Thanks in advance.

    • Comintern is my favorite doctrine to play and I use the SP units extensively. In the hands of an active player, the SP arty and SPRA can be used very effectively to bombard and retreat. You can essentially completely destroy units without taking any damage in return. I once took out a 42 unit doomstack from an active player without taking any damage whatsoever. You just bombard them and if they're giving chase, move in half hour increments so you can bombard again before moving. You have to be very active for this strategy to be effective; it's not for the casual player.

      I never upgrade my initial arty and rocket arty except maybe as a luxury very late game. Instead I send them into the mountains as they get a bonus from mountains and the SP version doesn't. Although with Comintern, you are always better producing new instead of upgrading to fully utilize the doctrine reduced production advantage. Although, I'm guilty of upgrading some units as I don't like having obsolete units around. Try spamming low level then upgrading by skipping a level. This is best done with cruisers and infantry, but could be used for others as well. Even better if you can upgrade just before you finish researching the level 3 and you only pay to upgrade to level 2, but it will increase to 3 anyway.

      Countering air power will always be Comintern's Achillies heel. You'll just need to read the map. Check the newspapers often to check what other players are using. If you see reports of units being destroyed by bomber wings, make building interceptors a priority along with upgrading your AA. Sometimes on the 22 player map no one uses air power and you don't need to worry about it, but don't just assume that! You can also check the profiles of other players to see their progress towards achievements using air units to gauge how likely they are to use bombers or recruit spies.

      You're best expanding in phases. Days 3-5 are best once you have enough rocket artillery built, then start researching both SP arty and SPRA on day four, and start building them on day five. Also on day four, focus on getting your secret lab and ordinance foundry upgraded as high as you can get it so you can start rolling units off the production lines as rapidly as possible. You'll have enough mobile artillery by day seven to start attacking with them if you can identify targets weak in air power, or you can wait until days eight when you have sufficient SPAA built. You can always build aircraft carriers just to use with interceptors along coastal areas. Another strategy is to hold them in reserve until you deal with their air power. A good strategy is to send a stack of infantry supported by your arty, RA, AT, and AA into your opponent's hills. AA receive a terrain bonus in hills and the infantry add to the damage bombers will take. Plus if your obsolete units get worn down a little, it's not a bad use for them if you can neutralize their air power. When they attack you and you've weakened their bombers enough, unleash your SP stacks.

      You'll also need to protect your SP units on the ground. I like pairing armored cars and tank destroyers to maximize your ability to retreat if an active player is trying to engage you in melee combat. Don't stack these units with low mobility units like anti-tank or regular AA or you're squandering their potential. Just use TDs and ACs to keep up with and protect your mobile artillery, bombard and force your opponents to either be bombarded away or attack your defensive units protecting your mobile artillery. If you have to do any amphibious landings, cruisers are your friends to defend against attacking bombers, or at least the ones on patrol.

      Hope this helps.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by 6thDragon ().

    • Taking out a 42 unit stack without getting any damage...wow, that is impressive.

      There is a lot of terrific advice there. Nice job 6thDragon. I appreciate the in-depth analysis!

      Your idea to pair AC and Tank Destroyers together is terrific. At first glance, heavy tanks would seem to be better than tank destroyers for commitern, because of all the bonuses commitern gets with heavy tanks. But heavy tanks are so slow that they would not go well with SP units. Tank Destroyers are a lot faster than tank destroyers and I agree with you that it is worthwhile to give up some power in order to get the added speed of the tank destroyers. When I played in the past, as allies, i always paired up AC units with Tank Destroyers, along with SP units...so i know they can work great together. Also, AC's and Tank Destoyers are both have terrific defensive statistics, which is perfect for SP units to get behind.

      I will try the upgrading trick next time i play...seems like a great way to upgrade 2 levels, while only paying for 1 level (the lower level)...that should save a lot of resources.

      Thanks again, 6thDragon...I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your line of thinking on this topic....super helpful, for sure.

    • Glad I could help. Actually let me walk back that accomplishment a little. No casualties appeared in the newspaper. I think I had to forced march it a little to keep my distance; so technically I took a little damage.

      I was lucky that it was in hills and planes where I got terrain bonuses.

      Another tactic you can use to avoid them catch you is to split in different directions when you come to a providence center. That way, assuming they don’t also split, you can retake the providence after they pass a little. This way you can keep the movement rate advantage based on whose providence it belongs to.