Creation of a Hospital building system.

Skirzee · Feb 22nd 2022, 5:20pm

So, I've had a problem where I retreat my damaged troops and it takes forever for them to heal; My solution, Hospitals! There would be two types of hospitals; Military Hospitals, which would be built in cities, and Field Hospitals, which would be built in provinces. My idea would work like this (Keep in mind that I don't understand the existing healing mechanic. Feel free to explain in a reply)

Military Hospitals-
Cities now have a base healing value (HV) of restoring 1 hp at day change.
At level 1, hospitals increase a city's HV to 2
level 2 hospital, HV 3
LV. 3, HV 4
LV. 4, HV 5
LV. 5, HV 6
Hospitals would also boost morale and population growth, but I will revise this part of the Idea at a later date.

Field hospitals-
Provinces have no base healing value- 0 HP restored at day change.
LV. 1 Field hospital grants the province an HV of 1
LV. 2, HV 2
LV. 3, HV 3.

BMfox · Feb 22nd 2022, 10:40pm

The day you can revive the dead, Bytro will introduce your field hospital, voodoo temple or whatever you want to call it. 50% of the casualties in a unit are deadly and the other 50% are the severely wounded that are discharged on medical grounds. Good luck bringing those back in active duty with a hospital. What you fail to understand is that if a unit is at 50% health it means that the brigade has suffered 50% casualties.

Undaunted · Feb 22nd 2022, 10:57pm

Skirzee wrote:

So, I've had a problem where I retreat my damaged troops and it takes forever for them to heal; My solution, Hospitals! There would be two types of hospitals; Military Hospitals, which would be built in cities, and Field Hospitals, which would be built in provinces. My idea would work like this (Keep in mind that I don't understand the existing healing mechanic. Feel free to explain in a reply)

Military Hospitals-
Cities now have a base healing value (HV) of restoring 1 hp at day change.
At level 1, hospitals increase a city's HV to 2
level 2 hospital, HV 3
LV. 3, HV 4
LV. 4, HV 5
LV. 5, HV 6
Hospitals would also boost morale and population growth, but I will revise this part of the Idea at a later date.

Field hospitals-
Provinces have no base healing value- 0 HP restored at day change.
LV. 1 Field hospital grants the province an HV of 1
LV. 2, HV 2
LV. 3, HV 3.

ıf you look to newspaper you will see casualties at there. one infantry regiment has 1000 If it has %50 morale. This means %50 of them died. You cant bring them with hospital

Nadda · Feb 23rd 2022, 4:54am

BMfox wrote:

The day you can revive the dead, Bytro will introduce your field hospital, voodoo temple or whatever you want to call it. 50% of the casualties in a unit are deadly and the other 50% are the severely wounded that are discharged on medical grounds. Good luck bringing those back in active duty with a hospital. What you fail to understand is that if a unit is at 50% health it means that the brigade has suffered 50% casualties.

Just a question, if the 'health' of a unit represents the number of troops, why does speed decrease when a unit gets more and more damaged? Are we to assume that logistical capabilities are also reduced? Because I was under the impression a smaller army would be more nimble and quick.

BMfox · Feb 23rd 2022, 7:08am

Nadda wrote:

BMfox wrote:

The day you can revive the dead, Bytro will introduce your field hospital, voodoo temple or whatever you want to call it. 50% of the casualties in a unit are deadly and the other 50% are the severely wounded that are discharged on medical grounds. Good luck bringing those back in active duty with a hospital. What you fail to understand is that if a unit is at 50% health it means that the brigade has suffered 50% casualties.

Just a question, if the 'health' of a unit represents the number of troops, why does speed decrease when a unit gets more and more damaged? Are we to assume that logistical capabilities are also reduced? Because I was under the impression a smaller army would be more nimble and quick.

Really? I'd say that a unit that suffered huge losses would be ineffective due to the fact that it's men are tired, demoralized and understrength, low on rations and have lost a lot of equipment and vehicles. :tumbleweed:

A fresh, undefeated, and provisioned army would be nimble indeed. A defeated one not so much.

dw98 · Feb 23rd 2022, 12:33pm

WOW - what a great idea! Never heard of this before.
:wallbash

Nadda · Feb 23rd 2022, 11:34pm

Alright checkmate BM you win.

General Texas · Feb 24th 2022, 8:03pm

BMfox wrote:

The day you can revive the dead, Bytro will introduce your field hospital, voodoo temple or whatever you want to call it. 50% of the casualties in a unit are deadly and the other 50% are the severely wounded that are discharged on medical grounds. Good luck bringing those back in active duty with a hospital. What you fail to understand is that if a unit is at 50% health it means that the brigade has suffered 50% casualties.

I'm confused about this as well. If a stack of units is showing 50% health because they've lost lives and we can't "revive the dead," then how can they ever regenerate health? He's asking you about speeding up the recovery of existing units that are still alive, not raising people from the dead. If the loss in hit points is due to dead people, then why would the units ever regain hit points?

I think @Skirzee brings up a good point in that the units that are remaining take a while to heal and that building hospitals or some sort of medical infrastructure would make sense to speed that process up.

6thDragon · Feb 24th 2022, 9:41pm

I agree, hospitals don't make sense. Many casualties are either dead are permanently disabled. If someone has a leg amputated, how much does it matter when they're released from the hospital...they're not going back to the front lines.

What I never understood is why you can't have units recover at a facility that produces new units? Those same facilities are churning out new units. These units would "repair" in much the same way a new unit is created in the first place. Think about it, to use the example of a 1,000 man unit suffering 50% casualties, you would recruit, train, and equip 500 new infantrymen instead of 1,000. This would largely be similar to how a new unit is created in the first place, but with "repairing" a damaged unit, you would use the exiting unit as a frame to bring the unit back to full strength. Presumably this would be easier as you would use the original unit with a chain of command composed of experienced NCOs and officers and integrate the fresh troops. To stand up a new unit from scratch, you would need to identify and transfer experienced NCOs and officers from other units. It's not like you can just produce mid and high ranking personnel straight from your academies and boot camps! I think it would be more rational to do if the unit at 50% strength were back at a facility that produces these units, especially for ships and other unit types that would require extensive refurbishment to bring back to full functionality.

BMfox · Feb 24th 2022, 9:59pm

The 15% damage healing at day change represents the lightly wounded declared fit for duty that rejoin their unit. Secondly it represents also recruits joining the unit as reinforcements.

The remaining units don't need to heal because they are still fit for duty

The units never regain full health, it's mathematically impossible. And for the units to almost heal up to maximum that takes a very long time. Please note that one day in the game represents a month or more in real life so we are talking about more than a year in real life.

I hope I was able to explain it clearly like this?

General Texas wrote:

I'm confused about this as well. If a stack of units is showing 50% health because they've lost lives and we can't "revive the dead," then how can they ever regenerate health? He's asking you about speeding up the recovery of existing units that are still alive, not raising people from the dead. If the loss in hit points is due to dead people, then why would the units ever regain hit points?

BMfox · Feb 24th 2022, 10:01pm

6thDragon wrote:

What I never understood is why you can't have units recover at a facility that produces new units? Those same facilities are churning out new units. These units would "repair" in much the same way a new unit is created in the first place. Think about it, to use the example of a 1,000 man unit suffering 50% casualties, you would recruit, train, and equip 500 new infantrymen instead of 1,000.

Indeed this would be a very good option. You march your unit to the barracks, you pay the amount of resources and manpower and you receive new recruits to bring your unit up to a 100% strength. It could stay immobile like when upgrading troops.

General Texas · Feb 25th 2022, 2:19pm

If we're going after realism, then maybe medical units that you send out with your troops?

BMfox · Feb 27th 2022, 7:08pm

General Texas wrote:

If we're going after realism, then maybe medical units that you send out with your troops?

As we are talking about one unit being a brigade of a 1000 men than those medics are already in the game. It's due to their work that lightly wounded are recovered from the battlefield and being sent back to their units when declared fit for duty. In the game this is simulated by the 15% damage healing mechanic at day change.

whowh · Feb 27th 2022, 8:52pm

New idea:

Rename the "Field Hospital" as "The Voodo Temple"

BMfox · Feb 27th 2022, 9:19pm

whowh wrote:

New idea:

Rename the "Field Hospital" as "The Voodo Temple"

Excellent suggestion, why didn't I think of that :thumbsup:

HonorForTheEmpire · Feb 28th 2022, 11:06pm

BMfox wrote:

6thDragon wrote:

What I never understood is why you can't have units recover at a facility that produces new units? Those same facilities are churning out new units. These units would "repair" in much the same way a new unit is created in the first place. Think about it, to use the example of a 1,000 man unit suffering 50% casualties, you would recruit, train, and equip 500 new infantrymen instead of 1,000.

Indeed this would be a very good option. You march your unit to the barracks, you pay the amount of resources and manpower and you receive new recruits to bring your unit up to a 100% strength. It could stay immobile like when upgrading troops.

So is there any timeline for a possible implementation? I think it is perfectly realistic to be able to either re-train or combine units. It simply seems that right now the entire system is designed to be broken by gold. I understand it is a business and needs to make money but it seems broken. You say we can't revive the dead, then why let players pay to do just that. The entire healing system needs to be reworked. When a unit loses 80% of their men they don't just wander around damaged until they get picked off. They return home, re-supply and re-fill their ranks. And if your timeline of 1 day to about a month is to be considered accurate that simply reinforces the notion. What is realistic about a unit taking casualties and then wandering around heavily damaged (both for health and speed) for MULTIPLE years without being able to do anything about it.

Basically it boils down to one main point: BALANCE

Either increase the normal players ability to heal/resupply units.
Or decrease the impact of gold on healing.

It seems to me that the devs are using "realism" as an excuse to break the game for pay-to-win players.

BMfox wrote:

Indeed this would be a very good option. You march your unit to the barracks, you pay the amount of resources and manpower and you receive new recruits to bring your unit up to a 100% strength. It could stay immobile like when upgrading troop

freezy · Mar 3rd 2022, 5:20pm

HonorForTheEmpire wrote:

So is there any timeline for a possible implementation?

It seems to me that the devs are using "realism" as an excuse to break the game for pay-to-win players.

Hm as far as I know a dev hasn't responded yet why the healing works like it does (Mods are not Devs). This is a very old mechanic that was in place even before I joined the company, it is coming from our earlier game S1914 and was taken over to CoW as well, like many other mechanics.
My assumption is that it was implemented like this to have troop reinforcements in a simplified way, to make it playable and keep micromanagement low. Similar to how many other mechanics in the game are also simplified for gameplay reasons. So rather a gameplay & pacing explanation than a realism explanation. And the system was never expanded or made more realistic because the priority for this is rather low, because the current system already works quite ok (not perfect of course).

That doesn't mean that it will stay forever like this. Perhaps we will rebalance it or perhaps we will add hospitals or workshops to the game at some point. It is discussed from time to time. But like many other features and suggestions it is unclear when this gets a priority. We cannot work on everything just because it sounds nice. The backlog of nice suggestions is huge.

It is not on the immediate roadmap so I cannot give you any timeline for a possible implementation.

Nadda · Mar 3rd 2022, 11:53pm

Just curious are there community road maps released by the devs? I'm having difficult finding any, and I would love to be able to see one so we can make more informed suggestions rather than asking for things that are already in progress or asking things that are really low priority since we have nothing to contrast it to. Cheers.

freezy wrote:

HonorForTheEmpire wrote:

So is there any timeline for a possible implementation?

It seems to me that the devs are using "realism" as an excuse to break the game for pay-to-win players.

Hm as far as I know a dev hasn't responded yet why the healing works like it does (Mods are not Devs). This is a very old mechanic that was in place even before I joined the company, it is coming from our earlier game S1914 and was taken over to CoW as well, like many other mechanics.My assumption is that it was implemented like this to have troop reinforcements in a simplified way, to make it playable and keep micromanagement low. Similar to how many other mechanics in the game are also simplified for gameplay reasons. So rather a gameplay & pacing explanation than a realism explanation. And the system was never expanded or made more realistic because the priority for this is rather low, because the current system already works quite ok (not perfect of course).

That doesn't mean that it will stay forever like this. Perhaps we will rebalance it or perhaps we will add hospitals or workshops to the game at some point. It is discussed from time to time. But like many other features and suggestions it is unclear when this gets a priority. We cannot work on everything just because it sounds nice. The backlog of nice suggestions is huge.

It is not on the immediate roadmap so I cannot give you any timeline for a possible implementation.

A Eastman · Mar 6th 2022, 5:39am

General Texas wrote:

BMfox wrote:

The day you can revive the dead, Bytro will introduce your field hospital, voodoo temple or whatever you want to call it. 50% of the casualties in a unit are deadly and the other 50% are the severely wounded that are discharged on medical grounds. Good luck bringing those back in active duty with a hospital. What you fail to understand is that if a unit is at 50% health it means that the brigade has suffered 50% casualties.

I'm confused about this as well. If a stack of units is showing 50% health because they've lost lives and we can't "revive the dead," then how can they ever regenerate health? He's asking you about speeding up the recovery of existing units that are still alive, not raising people from the dead. If the loss in hit points is due to dead people, then why would the units ever regain hit points?
I think @Skirzee brings up a good point in that the units that are remaining take a while to heal and that building hospitals or some sort of medical infrastructure would make sense to speed that process up.

Isn't that what gold is for? You can bring up the stack and pay gold to bring it back up to strength but it is not bringing it back from the dead just adding new recruits.

To me and the games I have played and units are getting less then 30% I put them all in an area just to sit a few days to build back up and then out they go and more go in.

If hospitals was approved I would say not fewer then a few days response time to get them back or just since it will make the game a lot longer. If it costs to much to heal the units then would be easier just to make more and less time in building vs hospital time.

freezy · Mar 8th 2022, 8:21pm

Nadda wrote:

Just curious are there community road maps released by the devs? I'm having difficult finding any, and I would love to be able to see one so we can make more informed suggestions rather than asking for things that are already in progress or asking things that are really low priority since we have nothing to contrast it to. Cheers.

No sorry, our roadmaps so far have remained internal. Because not only community related stuff or gameplay stuff is on there, but also business stuff. Priorities are also changed quite often depending on changing circumstances. Players would probably also give things a much different priority than we do and then we would end up in arguments why XYZ is rated so low while something else is rated higher.

But as a sneak peek I can tell you that alot of development time currently is going into expanding the Inventory system, which is currently tested with a portion of CoW players. This will keep us busy for some months still, which means only smaller stuff can be done on the side.
Another upcoming topic is polishing the look and feel of Call of War so that it makes a better impression to new players (but also gets some better interface usability). You may have heard about the Beta Client, this is part of it (among other things).
Another thing we might work on later in the year are tools to better connect with other players and friends.

Probably players would rate these topics rather low compared to their own ideas since they don't enhance the gameplay, and most suggestions are gameplay related. But we have other criterias for prioritization, as we also have to keep our KPIs in mind to grow the game.

We actually enhanced the gameplay alot with our whole CoW1.5 rework 1-2 years ago, that's why we now have some other topics on the plan.

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