What's the best unit to defend from light tanks with?

Lord Crayfish · Jun 16th 2022, 11:08pm

Anti-tank is good against medium and heavy tanks, infantry against infantry and artillery, and armoured cars against same. Commandos are effective attacking but less so defending. Is there any chiefly defensive unit that can defend from light armour (particularly light tanks) with some efficacy?

6thDragon · Jun 16th 2022, 11:16pm

AT is pretty good against LT; and probably the best you'll get in the early game. It's only marginally less effective against light armored units as it is heavy armor. If you're later in the game, consider tank destroyers. I say this primarily with looking at the Light Tank; LTs more effective against unarmored units compared to heavy armor.

Although the one advantage ATs have over TDs is that they are a stealth unit in urban areas. For a strictly defensive role in the early game, that would be critical. Not only would you surprise them, they would be hesitant to send light tanks into what appear to be undefended cities again. Just instilling paranoia in your opponents is worth something.

_Pyth0n_ · Jun 17th 2022, 5:17am

Since you mentioned light tanks, I particularly recommend either using tactical bombers as Allies, attack bombers as Axis, anti-tank as Pan-Asian, and Light/Medium Tanks as Comintern. Interestingly, the fastest ground unit that does the best damage against light armour is Light Tanks, so doesn't hurt to invest in those (unless it is Allies, then just use Tactical Bombers).

Also add basically whatever 6thDragon said

6thDragon · Jun 17th 2022, 2:36pm

_Pyth0n_ wrote:

Since you mentioned light tanks, I particularly recommend either using tactical bombers as Allies, attack bombers as Axis, anti-tank as Pan-Asian, and Light/Medium Tanks as Comintern. Interestingly, the fastest ground unit that does the best damage against light armour is Light Tanks, so doesn't hurt to invest in those (unless it is Allies, then just use Tactical Bombers).

Also add basically whatever 6thDragon said

That's a good point. LTs do little damage in return to bombers. Bombers are the perfect way to deal with counterattacks by your enemy. I use them often to hold in reserve for those situations, so you don't have to redirect your slower moving land units.

Lord Crayfish · Jun 17th 2022, 2:48pm

Thanks guys!

Donk2.0 · Jun 18th 2022, 12:27am

Actually, I'd probably opt for a heavy tank. It's really effective against lightly armored targets(up to 31 def and off, plus up to 178 HP per unit). Its only real problem is planes, but that is pretty easy to counter. AT and TD are against heavy targets. HTs are significantly more effective against light targets. HTs are also pretty decent against med tanks, and it's not that hard to annihilate new players or AI with them. Against experienced players though, you need a more advanced strategy. Oh, and it's also a very strong overall unit with equal defensive and offensive capabilities, so it doesn't take much skill to use properly.

Lord Crayfish · Jun 18th 2022, 1:12am

The problem being heavy tanks are probably less useful than the equivalent cost in almost everything else.

_Pyth0n_ · Jun 18th 2022, 4:52am

Donk2.0 wrote:

Actually, I'd probably opt for a heavy tank. It's really effective against lightly armored targets(up to 31 def and off, plus up to 178 HP per unit). Its only real problem is planes, but that is pretty easy to counter. AT and TD are against heavy targets. HTs are significantly more effective against light targets. HTs are also pretty decent against med tanks, and it's not that hard to annihilate new players or AI with them. Against experienced players though, you need a more advanced strategy. Oh, and it's also a very strong overall unit with equal defensive and offensive capabilities, so it doesn't take much skill to use properly.

Defensively, sure.

However, you will run into problems trying to catch up to them when they flee...Medium Tanks are just usually better, since they are usually faster (unless the enemy is Pan-Asian or you are Allies) on home terrain. While they don't have an absurd about of HP, they don't cost nearly as much and are significantly faster to produce as well. I do see your point though.

Lord Crayfish · Jun 18th 2022, 11:13am

_Pyth0n_ wrote:

Defensively, sure.
However, you will run into problems trying to catch up to them when they flee...Medium Tanks are just usually better, since they are usually faster (unless the enemy is Pan-Asian or you are Allies) on home terrain. While they don't have an absurd about of HP, they don't cost nearly as much and are significantly faster to produce as well. I do see your point though.

Yes, medium tanks are better. They generally don't slow my mechanised infantry down, and stacking Medium Tanks with Mechanised, with SP Artillery and sometimes TD's or SPAA, is my preferred attack once available. Heavy tanks are dead weight except when breaking through enemy lines, following which they are immediately put out to pasture and light or medium tanks used.
However, I find that allowing the enemy to flee is actually beneficial more often than not. Not only are many of their preferred units worse at defence, but also can be tracked destroyed using aircraft or artillery later. Most importantly, they're not in your way, so you can advance without casualties.

Hurbala · Jun 20th 2022, 8:38pm

recon

Nadda · Jun 20th 2022, 10:21pm

early game as commie I find myself countering light tanks with light tanks, because even with a pan asian buff, I can still outproduce them until I can afford mediums. Anti tank is alright especially if you got the commie buff, but it slows early offensive abilities a little too much for me at least on 100 players all in.

Lord Crayfish · Jun 20th 2022, 10:54pm

Nadda wrote:

early game as commie I find myself countering light tanks with light tanks, because even with a pan asian buff, I can still outproduce them until I can afford mediums. Anti tank is alright especially if you got the commie buff, but it slows early offensive abilities a little too much for me at least on 100 players all in.

What were you doing fighting pan-asian in comintern doctrine?
Also pan-asian tanks aren't even that good, in my opinion. I prefer to use aircraft, and light tanks are better used offensively IMO.
Thanks.

Nadda · Jun 20th 2022, 10:56pm

I normally go with communist china on 100player lmao and I am always surrounded by pan-asian 'friends'

AMG Morgan · Jun 21st 2022, 12:38am

Nadda wrote:

Anti tank is alright especially if you got the commie buff, but it slows early offensive abilities a little too much for me at least on 100 players all in.

Tell me about it they are soooo slow but as a methodical player they are probably in my opinion the best option to countering light tanks(early game)

The issue with light tanks is they cost OMR I would much put my OMR into navy or airforce most importantly industry. comintern probably doesn't deal with issue as heavily as other doctrine but putting resources into industry early is big difference long term.

K.Rokossovski · Jun 21st 2022, 9:28am

When I see a potential enemy using light tanks, my first instinct reaction is "probably a noob". As great as they were in 1.0, they're completely overnerfed now and almost useless; AC is the way to go for rush units now (and a point can be made for mot.inf too).

They have way too much trouble defeating infantry (yes they win, but they get battered themselves as well), and their advantage over AC's withers away even if they only have a slight tech lag. As soon as anything else than that is around, they're toast, notably against air (AC has a much better AA value; this is IMPORTANT in the early game when the air player doesn't have 10-stacks yet!), but also heavier tanks, AT, mech, you name it. Almost every other unit is better at taking out artillery stacks caught in melee as well. And to top all that off, they're the only one of the three top rush units (LT, AC, mot) who does NOT have stealth spotting.

So in my opinion, you don't have to specifically defend against them. Just make sure there are no important empty provinces where they can drive (as you would have to do against any rush unit), and the problem will solve itself.

Lord Crayfish · Jun 21st 2022, 12:40pm

K.Rokossovski wrote:

When I see a potential enemy using light tanks, my first instinct reaction is "probably a noob". As great as they were in 1.0, they're completely overnerfed now and almost useless; AC is the way to go for rush units now (and a point can be made for mot.inf too).

They have way too much trouble defeating infantry (yes they win, but they get battered themselves as well), and their advantage over AC's withers away even if they only have a slight tech lag. As soon as anything else than that is around, they're toast, notably against air (AC has a much better AA value; this is IMPORTANT in the early game when the air player doesn't have 10-stacks yet!), but also heavier tanks, AT, mech, you name it. Almost every other unit is better at taking out artillery stacks caught in melee as well. And to top all that off, they're the only one of the three top rush units (LT, AC, mot) who does NOT have stealth spotting.

So in my opinion, you don't have to specifically defend against them. Just make sure there are no important empty provinces where they can drive (as you would have to do against any rush unit), and the problem will solve itself.

Thanks.
Surely the AC is a defensive unit against infantry, whereas the light tank is offensive and works best against light armour. Aren't these completely different roles? LT's can absolutely smash AC's, although mediums may well be better and usually are.
Also why would a player who is not himself a noob use heavy tanks? The same value of mediums is considerably more versatile, and faster. Apart from being cool, and being used defensively or offensively, what's actually good about them?

K.Rokossovski · Jun 21st 2022, 12:56pm

Lord Crayfish wrote:

K.Rokossovski wrote:

Surely the AC is a defensive unit against infantry,

No, it isn't. Event though the stats suggest it is defensive, it works very well in an offensive role as well. You can't expect it to smash down serious opposition, but it excels in knocking down small infantry stacks, especially at the higher levels and/or in plains. Surely better than an LT can. And when you're an active player and are able to exploit that defense bonus every once in a while, it is even better.

Lord Crayfish wrote:

LT's can absolutely smash AC's

I challenge you to try that with an L1 LT against a L2/3 AC. No smashing going on at all.

Lord Crayfish wrote:

Also why would a player who is not himself a noob use heavy tanks?

I didn't say heavy, I said heavier (than an LT)... meaning medium- and heavy tanks and tank deswtroyers. And the HT is not a complete bullshit unit as many people think, it works pretty well in some situations to beef up big stacks if you're not very active. I don't usually use them myself either though...

_Pyth0n_ · Jun 21st 2022, 1:01pm

Lord Crayfish wrote:

Surely the AC is a defensive unit against infantry, whereas the light tank is offensive and works best against light armour. Aren't these completely different roles? LT's can absolutely smash AC's, although mediums may well be better and usually are.

The point is that LTs, ACs, and Mot Inf are the three best rush units in the game, meaning they are the fastest troops in the game throughout all doctrines. They all have pros and cons, but usually it is better to rush with ACs or Mot Inf than LTs for a number of reasons, some of which General K mentioned above.

Lord Crayfish wrote:

Apart from being cool, and being used defensively or offensively, what's actually good about them?

*I'm assuming by "them", you mean heavy tanks.

The best way to use heavy tanks is as battering rams, to break open a static front with very meaty units. Coupled with some RRGs, AA and infantry, they are difficult to defeat, especially in mega-stacks. They are best used as Comintern, since they have a HP boost. They can be used as Axis, but the +10% damage isn't really worth the slow speed and since the Axis medium tanks are amazing there is no use for the heavy tanks to roll in. Other doctrines they are just useless unless for HP boosts.

Lord Crayfish · Jun 21st 2022, 1:55pm

OK then.
I have used them for breakthroughs, yes.

Lord Crayfish · Jun 21st 2022, 1:56pm

K.Rokossovski wrote:

Lord Crayfish wrote:

K.Rokossovski wrote:

Surely the AC is a defensive unit against infantry,

No, it isn't. Event though the stats suggest it is defensive, it works very well in an offensive role as well. You can't expect it to smash down serious opposition, but it excels in knocking down small infantry stacks, especially at the higher levels and/or in plains. Surely better than an LT can. And when you're an active player and are able to exploit that defense bonus every once in a while, it is even better.

Lord Crayfish wrote:

LT's can absolutely smash AC's

I challenge you to try that with an L1 LT against a L2/3 AC. No smashing going on at all.

Lord Crayfish wrote:

Also why would a player who is not himself a noob use heavy tanks?

I didn't say heavy, I said heavier (than an LT)... meaning medium- and heavy tanks and tank deswtroyers. And the HT is not a complete bullshit unit as many people think, it works pretty well in some situations to beef up big stacks if you're not very active. I don't usually use them myself either though...

That seems reasonable. Thank you.

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