Tips for 2/3v1 situation

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    • Tips for 2/3v1 situation

      Recently i think im going in a 2/3v1 situation , with enemies all around me, i invested a lot in economy and do the right troops i think, nay advice on how to win in these? also im trying to use with panasian AC to take out industries and capitals, way to make this in the most fast/right way?
    • Are they allied / in a coalition? Your best bet is to get them in sequential 1v1s, where wiping each one out as quickly as possible is usually best. You won't win a long drawn-out fight against three active players, you're just at too much of an economic and unit disadvantage unless they're total idiots.

      General ideas: look for others nearby who might help out, offering them the ability to conquer a distracted enemy while you engage directly; try to figure out which timezone they're in and hit them while they're sleeping; if you're sandwiched, choose the weaker target first while leaving defensive targets on your border with the stronger one (like anti-tanks in forests, etc); invest in planes, which can quickly change fronts to deal with the changing flow of the battle.

      Good luck.
    • Better to dump all you have to build up your military than economy. It takes days for you break even with your investment in industry and your very weak in that recouping period, if they attack you're screwed.

      So ramp up your defense spending then focus on 1 guy, try to take them out 1 by 1. Shoot n scoot with arty is probably your best bet because they can damage enemy units without being damaged themselves (unless your enemy also goes for arty), in a war of attrition vs 2/3, hitting your opponents without getting hit back is critical. And don't be afraid to lose ground as at times you really would have to. I'd gladly lose ground for favorable terrain, to stretch out enemy lines, better choke point positions, and just by virtue of playing shoot n scoot.

      Maybe play defensive at first, pick a choke point then pound them there with shoot n scoot. They'd most probably send all their units in one big wave so after you defeat it, you can take the initiative and go for offense. All this is assuming they don't have artys themselves, if they do well you probably should just archive lol.

      I'm also a big proponent of Ints. Think about it, if you go for anti ground planes and your enemy have an Int stack, your planes would just be useless. All that resources down the drain, not to mention Ints are much cheaper than other planes so you're expensive plane stack absolutely countered by a cheap one. If you go for Ints and your opponents go for anti grounds, it's a huge win for you. Ints also are good enough to pick off lone units like rush AC's and unprotected reinforcements so there's also that. Good luck.

      be active
    • I like Saske's idea to use AC's to demolish an enemy's core. This is what I did a few games ago, playing as Japan. Only instead of AC's my plan was to max out those Pan Asian light tanks. Scary fast and powerful at levels 4+ and hard to stop.

      But you have to maximize your terrain bonuses. This is why mixed stacks are a bad idea, no matter who you are, but especially as Pan Asian, which trades HP for bigger terrain bonuses. If you're not fighting with a terrain bonus, you're losing the fight. That means armor fights in the plains, infantry in the cities, and mixing is dumb.
    • When facing an attacking stack with my own attacking stack, I like to give ground, and then hit them.
      This gives me a chance to control which stats are being used in the battle (attack or defense).
      It also means I'm choosing the terrain.
      Of course, this doesn't work if you have to give up a core city :)

      In general, don't be afraid to lose ground.
      Build a buffer around your core to make sure your core isn't being pillaged.
      Fight on land that's outside your core.
      Then you can easily pull back and control the time and place of battles.

      I sometimes defend by attacking enemies just to move the fight to their land.
      Especially if they have a lot of terrain that my units can exploit.
      Take a plains tile, move in a stack of AC's, wait for the enemy infantry.
    • z00mz00m wrote:

      When facing an attacking stack with my own attacking stack, I like to give ground, and then hit them.
      This gives me a chance to control which stats are being used in the battle (attack or defense).
      It also means I'm choosing the terrain.
      Of course, this doesn't work if you have to give up a core city :)

      In general, don't be afraid to lose ground.
      Build a buffer around your core to make sure your core isn't being pillaged.
      Fight on land that's outside your core.
      Then you can easily pull back and control the time and place of battles.

      I sometimes defend by attacking enemies just to move the fight to their land.
      Especially if they have a lot of terrain that my units can exploit.
      Take a plains tile, move in a stack of AC's, wait for the enemy infantry.
      Giving ground and choosing the most beneficial terrain to defend often is in your own core territory due to home defense bonuses; especially in the early game.

      One thing to keep in mind however is to be careful not to make a stand in a province center that has buildings in it, otherwise those buildings will likely be destroyed even if you win the battle.

      Another thing to consider is a current glitch that if you are not at a province center and you are attacked, your troops will not stay on defense, they will attack back. This is important if you are employing shoot and scoot tactics. If you will get caught in melee and have defensive troops, make sure you do it in a province center. You can always build fortifications to lure your opponent back to for you to make a stand in terrain to your advantage. Especially with Pan Asian, their infantry do very well in forests compared to other doctrines.

      I’m with Z. Sakki, you’re always best building arty and defensive units to protect it. Arty can bombard dealing damage with only receiving damage in return from other arty. Bombard them forcing them to chose between death by bombardment or attacking your defensive troops. When they give chase, move and bombard in 30 minute increments. If you both have coasts, you can similarly use cruisers and battleships to soften up your opponents.

      If you are in the early game, any Comintern opponent will be at a disadvantage due to their damage handicap compared to your enhanced terrain bonuses. Consider that when choosing who to target first. Allies doctrine will be very slow compared to your troops considering their speed handicap and your speed bonus. If you’re in the early game, you shouldn’t boarder any Axis opponents.
    • Good point on doctrine effects in the early game. Axis gets the same troops as everyone else, even though Axis troops are stronger and more expensive. In my current game, the Axis infantry level 1 my neighbor attacked with is similar to the Comintern infantry level 2 that I just researched. He was mopping the floor with my level 1 units. This is completely unfair in the early game, so if you like to rush on day 1 then Axis is the doctrine for you.

      Disagree on fighting on your home turf. Yes, the defense bonus is nice, but the cost to the structures and the morale of your core territory is too high. I would much rather see my neighbor's land turn into a demoralized, demolished, unproductive mess. This has serious implications for the rest of the game.
    • I have recently win a 2 v1 situation , very hardly but panasian in terrain of cores is soo powerful so I like keep the fight in my cres when im low number or levels. A point that i wish understand.. for panasian docrtine tank destroyer as late game unit is valid?I also try to understand if there are some must troops in late game for panasian
    • z00mz00m wrote:



      Disagree on fighting on your home turf. Yes, the defense bonus is nice, but the cost to the structures and the morale of your core territory is too high. I would much rather see my neighbor's land turn into a demoralized, demolished, unproductive mess. This has serious implications for the rest of the game.
      I think if you're selective about where on your home turf, its' doable. Recovering the morale isn't a problem, but agree it's the buildings that's hard to recover from. I certainly wouldn't recommend making a stand in one of your core cities, if you have other options. As long as you don't make a stand in a core city or a province you've build rural infrastructure, it's doable. Preferably a forest province with infantry and anti-tank (both get terrain bonuses) If possible, even after shooting and scooting through hills first.

      Also consider militia. They don't do well in cities because they receive no terrain bonuses and level 1 militia are crap, but Pan Asian get early access to lvl 2 militia, which are perfect for ambushing in terrain with bonuses (hills, mountains and forests). And they are quick to produce, even level two.
    • SaskeOtaku wrote:

      I have recently win a 2 v1 situation , very hardly but panasian in terrain of cores is soo powerful so I like keep the fight in my cres when im low number or levels. A point that i wish understand.. for panasian docrtine tank destroyer as late game unit is valid?I also try to understand if there are some must troops in late game for panasian
      Pan Asian get such good bonuses on early units, you're usually just best keeping them leveled up. I usually make stacks of infantry, Anti-tank, arty and rocket arty. I use interceptors for air superiority otherwise, invest in AA too. Give priority to arty and AT. Arty because of the bombardment advantages, AT because you want to keep your slowest moving unit upgraded so your stack moves faster. You can use tank destroyers, I just prefer AT and using my metal for a navy and industry. Don't forget to keep your ACs leveled up too, they are valuable for all doctrines, but Pan Asian especially.

      Honestly, with Pan Asian, I never focus on any of the SP versions of arty or rocket arty. The Pan Asian arty is best in game and you get speed bonuses for all units.
    • The other thing to keep in mind, Pan Asian countries appear on maps that include a lot of water. That means you'll need an air force and a navy, in addition to a land army. That means you really can't afford a heavily mechanized land army. Sure it's great to have a few fast stacks for recon and to exploit openings, but forget about big stacks of heavy armor. And why bother with mechanized artillery when your normal artillery is cheap, fast, and comes with bonuses? Save your oil for more important things. Like fighters and bombers and battleships.
    • z00mz00m wrote:

      Disagree on fighting on your home turf. Yes, the defense bonus is nice, but the cost to the structures and the morale of your core territory is too high. I would much rather see my neighbor's land turn into a demoralized, demolished, unproductive mess. This has serious implications for the rest of the game.
      The home def bonus 15% damage reduction and bonus damage really makes a difference, I'd very much prefer fighting with it. If you're playing Pan-Asian in a favorable terrain with home def bonus, your total damage amplification would be at 85%, 85! that's nothing to sneeze at (and that's without taking into account the 15% damage reduction).

      You do have a point with buildings being damaged but you start with 22 provinces and only 5 of those are cities. It shouldn't be a problem if you just pick to fight in those other 17 provinces, and sure some of those are also resource-producing rural provinces but given the scenario, you wouldn't really be building industry on them yet. I also never build barracks so out of those 5 cities, one would be empty and be available for combat (tho forests are preferable if you're Pan), plus another one if you're landlocked.

      Morale dropping is still an issue yes, but it's manageable and probably the last thing you should worry about given the situation. Unless it's a very buffed stack an arty stack would have no problem annihilating it. If it actually reaches the province, hopefully shoot n scoot has worn it down enough that it'd die in one defense tick of the garrison and that the morale damage would be mitigated due to deteriorated damage efficiency. Most units also just generally don't dish out that much morale damage.

      Leaving your core for offense would stretch you thin and expose your core especially in a 2/3 v 1 where there is more than 1 front, better to just wait for them in a choke point, at least in the initial first wave. If geography plays in your favor with the enemy countries positioned in a way that there'd really only be one front from which they'd be attacking from, then sure you can take the initiative and attack but if not, it's pretty risky.
    • SaskeOtaku wrote:

      I have recently win a 2 v1 situation , very hardly but panasian in terrain of cores is soo powerful so I like keep the fight in my cres when im low number or levels. A point that i wish understand.. for panasian docrtine tank destroyer as late game unit is valid?I also try to understand if there are some must troops in late game for panasian
      Nah just ignore TD's or any other specialized melee troops for that matter. Just focus on artys and their protection units. I don't even build AT's, just arty Inf AC and maybe AA.

      There's one strat I've been thinking about for late game tho. Railroad Guns. They're very expensive to research and produce sure but once get a stack going, it's literally unkillable unless also confronted by a mirror rrg stack. Think about it, it's shoot and scoot that makes artys broken over melee units as they could deal damage without being damaged back - that's literally what rrg's do but better since they can also that to artys themselves, and if you're axis even to other rrg's lol.

      Rrg's are only available on day 6 (4 for axis) plus 1 day of research, so in that 5-7 day period just build up industry and facilities and once the research is complete let hell loose. They're slow yes but again, unless it's confronting another rrg stack, it's unkillable.

      They don't need to be leveled up and they're also not as expensive to protect as with artys. Militias for hp, AC's for vision and regular AA's for planes will do. I'm thinking researching just lvl1 arty to secure early expansion vs noobs, just 10 will do and then just wait for rrg's. Allying with neighbor seems critical too since it's a very big investment and until then you're relatively weak. Being landlocked may also be a pro so you wouldn't have to divert resources to form a navy. I still haven't tried this out but I did run something similar. This was on a 4x speed WaW map so it may not necessarily translate to normal speed maps but the gist of it was: On ground units, with the exception of a few AC's, I produced just 12 artys to secure my early game, never upgraded them or their cover units. What I did research was sparty and spaa, produced 20 and 12 respectively and was even able to wait out a lvl3 research for the sparty before upgrading them. Even the lvl4 research was already underway, I just had to upgrade because of an emergency. (Note: I was also able to upgrade my navy which was 10 cruisers and 6 deatroyers to around lvl4, for planes 15+ Ints and about a dozen sea planes to lvl5 for Ints and about 3 for the latter iirc. The AC also mentioned above, it was maxed so it's not like this route completely leaves you dried out and incapable until you get the rrg's going)

      Unfortunately I didn't win that game but it did show that it was possible to run a cheap rickity disposable early game army to secure the early game for an ultra late game army. And if you're wondering why I didn't win, well because the enemy's build just bested mine. Guess what his build was... Yep, that's right rrg's lol.
    • Oh man, I really should give railroad guns a try. My hesitation is that they take forever to research and build. They're very slow and appear to be resource hogs. And they can't be upgraded.

      To me, they appear to be a mid-game unit at best, but I'll admit, I've never given them a try. Because they can't be upgraded, they'll be outclassed by late game units. In terms of damage output, they're comparable to level five Pan Asian arty, which is available day 12. Sure regular arty wouldn't have the same range as railraod guns, but they are much faster, cheaper, and are upgradable.

      I find that if you focus on keeping your arty and rocket arty upgraded, they can bombard about anything. If you also give your AT research priority, it won't slow you down and should be able to deal with any tanks that can rush you and survive your shoot and scoot. I usually just research up to level three for infantry and upgrade skipping a level going directly from one to three to save resources.

      The range could be an issue, but if you're as active as me, it's not. It's similar to using cruisers against battleships. I've never had a problem.

      Personally, I focus on army and navy the first week of the game and don't upgrade my rocket arty beyond level 2. The second week of the game, I focus heavily on air power. With Pan Asian, I use bombers and interceptors to scout, clear small stacks out of the way of my armored car rush and send my ground stacks to shoot and scoot with larger enemy ground stacks. It's a strategy that works very well for me. I ran into problems my last game when an opponent gold healed all damage I did to him with the shoot and scoot tactics and started gold spamming ten rocket fighters at a time from recently conquered cities, but if anyone has a good strategy for dealing with even semi-competent players willing to drop gold like that, I'm all ears.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by 6thDragon ().

    • I've tried the RRG many times, including the Axis RRG, and they never made a difference in the game.

      1. Too slow to use on offense. Same problem as militia.
      2. Vulnerable to air attack, requiring a lot of baby sitting.
      3. No upgrades, so their window of usefulness is limited. Combined with the slow speed, it means they go from Wow to Meh by the time they reach the front line in significant numbers.

      Heavy tanks have a similar problem, but at least we can upgrade heavy tanks in the field. Not realistic, but useful.