Light Tank Spam- And The Strategy Behind it.

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    • jubjub bird wrote:

      There's just so much wrong in that post that I feel like I have to go point by point.

      1) Allies have cheaper upgrades, yes, but they also are four (!) days behind Pan Asian in research levels. Also, you never want to steadily upgrade units, you want to chunk it into as few upgrades as possible. Light tanks only have 5 levels; if you're upgrading more than twice, you're wasting resources.

      2) Production speed is not that much of an advantage unless you're constantly producing units, because it helps you maximize your consumption of resources. I doubt this is the case in most games.

      3) Speed is one of the few things that light tanks actually do well, and enable it to outrun stacks that might otherwise threaten it. A ~30% speed difference is enormous and means Pan Asian tanks can outrun basically anything.

      As for Pan Asian LTs, yes they do have less health. Fair point. However, they're also 15% stronger against the main targets for LTs (light armor) AND 15% stronger against the secondary targets for LTs, unarmored. Additionally, with plains being the most common terrain on most maps, Pan Asian tanks are likely to take advantage of their bonus terrain bonus a decent amount of the time (made easier by their speed advantage).
      1. You misunderstood me, i mean steadily as in be consistantly upgrading whenever possible, yes, in large ammounts.

      2. i have been spamming LT's and Naval units the whole game and i just won a WaW

      3. Speed really does not matter, what do i need to out run? just call more LT's

      Pan Asian countries have like no flatlands to start with, and neither does most of the surrounding areas. therefore the Allies have the advantage if they invade. the bonus also means nothing if they are fighting superior numbers, since the theoretical Allied player could produce more than the Pan-Asian player.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • Fox-Company wrote:


      2. i have been spamming LT's and Naval units the whole game and i just won a WaW
      Well you won this heavily due to land support and planes too, not to mention nukes. We couldn’t have won it had it not been for good use of planes to push our enemies back, and high level forces on land.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Yea man you're just wrong, I don't know how else to try to explain it to you. Constantly upgrading is bad. Speed matters. Allies can only produce more light tanks than Pan Asian if you're maxing out your resource usage, which is unlikely.
      I still wouldn’t under estimate allied LT spam. You’re still gonna make more units due to the fact that upgrades are cheaper and your units have more health. Even with less speed the only counter would be pan Asian light tanks or mot infantry, not changing much. While Pan Asian light tanks are better I wouldn’t say much much better, and that allied ones are completely worse or even Ineffective.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Yea man you're just wrong, I don't know how else to try to explain it to you. Constantly upgrading is bad. Speed matters. Allies can only produce more light tanks than Pan Asian if you're maxing out your resource usage, which is unlikely.
      Would you like proof of this working? i maxed out my production as fast as i can while also producing as many LT's as possible, I have done this for every game i have played to win, and i won.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • jubjub bird wrote:

      I get that you won the game, congrats. That doesn't mean your strategy was optimal, and you're giving bad advice.
      So is winning a WaW not enough for you?
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • Carking the 6th wrote:

      jubjub bird wrote:

      Yea man you're just wrong, I don't know how else to try to explain it to you. Constantly upgrading is bad. Speed matters. Allies can only produce more light tanks than Pan Asian if you're maxing out your resource usage, which is unlikely.
      I still wouldn’t under estimate allied LT spam. You’re still gonna make more units due to the fact that upgrades are cheaper and your units have more health. Even with less speed the only counter would be pan Asian light tanks or mot infantry, not changing much. While Pan Asian light tanks are better I wouldn’t say much much better, and that allied ones are completely worse or even Ineffective.
      I don't underestimate it. I've seen LTs used very well as a dominant strategy. I'm just saying it needs to be expanded on.

      There are many more effective counters than you're envisioning.

      1. Anti Tank especially Commies, are cheap and very effective against tanks if put in place ahead of time. Yes they're too slow to move into place at the last minute. Plus they are stealth in cities and forests, with just LTs, you'll be ambushed and destroyed.

      2. Tank destroyers, very similar to Anti Tank, except not stealth in cities, but still very effective defending against light armor.

      3. Bombers. Yes, light armor fits into that sweat spot that neither the attack bomber nor tac bomber are optimized for it, but they're still effective and LTs will do practically no damage in return. Bombers are the perfect quick reaction force and can easily be shifted to different fronts to counter LT raiders.

      4. Medium Tanks. In enough numbers they will tear up a LT stack. I've done this in an AvA style game where the enemy had a massive stack of leveled LT and AC rampaging through our core. I put two MTs in my capital and three more just outside so that the enemy couldn't see them before committing to the attack. Once they were engaged, I had the units outside the city join the fight and the LT stack was done. It was the best way I could think to take them on as they were Pan Asian and superior view range and speed. My only hope against them was MTs and a little strategic deception.
    • "I put two MTs in my capital and three more just outside so that the enemy couldn't see them before committing to the attack."

      I need some help understanding game mechanics.

      In the scenario you described, let's say your MT reinforcements arrive 20 minutes after the battle started. (Twenty minutes after the '0' Tik.) When they arrive, do they immediately attack the enemy stack which is already engaged with your other MTs, using their attack values against the enemy defensive values; or

      Do the enemy tanks attack your newly-arrived MTs with their current attack values against your defensive values; or

      Do the enemy tanks attack both your newly-arrived MTs added to your other defending MTs; or

      What?...

      Please explain the mechanics, from 0 Tik to 2 complete Tiks.

      Thank you.
    • Occasionally there are exceptions, and I have a few theories for when they occur, but in general adding units to an existing stack in combat will do just that--add them to the existing stack, where they'll continue doing whatever that stack was doing.

      If your medium tanks are defending and the light tanks are attacking, adding a medium tank to the stack will mean that next time the light tanks attack, you'll have more HP and defense.

      (However, in this case you want your medium tanks attacking and not just defending because of the nature of the two unit types.)
    • OK, let me say this back to you... At the moment the reinforcing MTs arrive (between Tik 0 and Tik1), there isn't any combat; rather, the defensive value of the extra MTs is added to the defensive value of the other MTs, and the new total defensive value is used at the next 'tik'.

      I imagine that, for the defending player, the same principle applies regardless of the various stack compositions.

      What about extra attacking units?... Let's say some extra attacking units arrive between tiks...

      Is there an immediate combat?... Or are the attacking values of the newly-arrived attacking units added to the other attacking units only at the next 'tik'?

      Thank you.
    • Kolonnos wrote:

      OK, let me say this back to you... At the moment the reinforcing MTs arrive (between Tik 0 and Tik1), there isn't any combat; rather, the defensive value of the extra MTs is added to the defensive value of the other MTs, and the new total defensive value is used at the next 'tik'.

      I imagine that, for the defending player, the same principle applies regardless of the various stack compositions.

      What about extra attacking units?... Let's say some extra attacking units arrive between tiks...

      Is there an immediate combat?... Or are the attacking values of the newly-arrived attacking units added to the other attacking units only at the next 'tik'?

      Thank you.
      Yes, your explanation is my understanding of how it works. Newly-added attacking units won't add their attack power until the next tick. For this reason, you may want to force combat before they become part of the attacking stack to get earlier damage, such as by giving a Stop command when they're still a few km away.
    • Kolonnos wrote:

      "I put two MTs in my capital and three more just outside so that the enemy couldn't see them before committing to the attack."

      I need some help understanding game mechanics.

      In the scenario you described, let's say your MT reinforcements arrive 20 minutes after the battle started. (Twenty minutes after the '0' Tik.) When they arrive, do they immediately attack the enemy stack which is already engaged with your other MTs, using their attack values against the enemy defensive values; or

      Do the enemy tanks attack your newly-arrived MTs with their current attack values against your defensive values; or

      Do the enemy tanks attack both your newly-arrived MTs added to your other defending MTs; or

      What?...

      Please explain the mechanics, from 0 Tik to 2 complete Tiks.

      Thank you.
      Getting units to merge with a stack that is already in combat is not an exact science. Sometimes it joins the stack, sometimes in attacks as a separate stack. As Jubjub Bird indicated, some factors help or hurt whether your reinforcements joins the group as a separate stack or not. In these situations, yes, with MTs you're better off attacking, but I think by giving units movement orders instead of attack orders, they are more likely to join as a single stack. I also think defending makes the reinforcements more likely to join as one stack. So in these situations, you're better off having the initial MT stack just defend until the reinforcements arrive, then go on offense doing so as a single stack.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by 6thDragon ().

    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Fox-Company wrote:

      Okay, good for you, you have an opinion, i have facts, think what you want, I'll think what i want.
      Lol you've presented nothing but opinions, and when presented with facts (like allied vs PA LTs) you hand-waved them away.
      Would you like to see every win i have gotten with LTS? i have plenty of game knowledge, all you have is a screen that tells you what you want to see, yet you have no proof that it does not work.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Comparing wins doesn't prove anything, but I guess we can do that if you want. You're welcome to search my name.
      Never said comparing wins, i am talking about wins with LTS, which you very well know, and you have none of, because you despise it too much to play it, which is why everything you say has no merit, because you simply do not know.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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