Patrol no longer gives intelligence reports?

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    • Patrol no longer gives intelligence reports?

      Did using a fighter to quickly patrol an area to reveal enemy units and provide an intelligence report for them change?

      Before, you could send the fighter to a patrol circle where it would provide intelligence reports for enemy units in its circle, then retreat the fighter before the 15 minute cycle initiates (which would cause damage).

      Now, do we really have to initiate that 15 minute patrol cycle, have our fighter be damaged or destroyed to acquire an intelligence report of the unit sighted?

      Why in the world did this change? This severely hamstrings the "quick intelligence" role that fighters are supposed to play. Is this true, and why?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by dragonborne ().

    • It was too OP, allowed players to create spy snapshots of whole countries within some minutes without any risk, and made spies less useful. Now there is at least some risk to get shot down, which is realistic. Enemies wouldnt just idle when over them scout planes are circling.
      You have now the choice to get a basic view without snapshot (but have to remember it yourself) or you get a detailed view with snapshot, but it takes longer and is more risky due to damage.

      In addition to the logical reasons, the change was also needed to fix a related bugs.

      It was indeed changed many months ago, in May of this year. And no, it won't be changed back, sorry.
    • freezy wrote:

      It was too OP, allowed players to create spy snapshots of whole countries within some minutes without any risk, and made spies less useful. Now there is at least some risk to get shot down, which is realistic. Enemies wouldnt just idle when over them scout planes are circling..
      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA
    • Gen. Smit wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      It was too OP, allowed players to create spy snapshots of whole countries within some minutes without any risk, and made spies less useful. Now there is at least some risk to get shot down, which is realistic. Enemies wouldnt just idle when over them scout planes are circling..
      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA
      I agree with this, there should be a range where AA auto-initiates an attack of passing aircraft, it would be a lot more realistic, so AA doesn't have to be on the front lines fighting other attacking units while being bombarded by planes to protect those units.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • freezy wrote:

      It was too OP, allowed players to create spy snapshots of whole countries within some minutes without any risk, and made spies less useful. Now there is at least some risk to get shot down, which is realistic. Enemies wouldnt just idle when over them scout planes are circling.
      You have no the choice to get a basic view without snapshot (but have to remember it yourself) or you get a detailed view with snapshot, but it takes longer and is more risky due to damage.

      In addition to the logical reasons, the change was also needed to fix a related bugs.

      It was indeed changed many months ago, in May of this year. And no, it won't be changed back, sorry.
      Well I agree with OP that it is very inconvenient from a player's persepctive. You can get the intel, but the game won't save it for you; instead you have to rely on memory and dirty notepad files. It is very unfriendly to today's gamer who feels that the game should do this kind of "standard" administration for you, and not bother you with insufficient tools to do your job, which is strategy, not administration of scouting results.
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.
    • Gen. Smit wrote:

      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA

      Fox-Company wrote:

      I agree with this, there should be a range where AA auto-initiates an attack of passing aircraft, it would be a lot more realistic, so AA doesn't have to be on the front lines fighting other attacking units while being bombarded by planes to protect those units.
      We at Bytro agree as well. It is one of the wanted features that is in our backlog for a long time already. Sadly implementing it would take some weeks of Dev work, that's why it so far did not get enough prio to be implemented. But maybe at some point in the future :D
    • freezy wrote:

      Gen. Smit wrote:

      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA

      Fox-Company wrote:

      I agree with this, there should be a range where AA auto-initiates an attack of passing aircraft, it would be a lot more realistic, so AA doesn't have to be on the front lines fighting other attacking units while being bombarded by planes to protect those units.
      We at Bytro agree as well. It is one of the wanted features that is in our backlog for a long time already. Sadly implementing it would take some weeks of Dev work, that's why it so far did not get enough prio to be implemented. But maybe at some point in the future :D
      Thank you for taking it into mind, if this was intergreated into the game i'm sure i could get more people to play, cause they think most mechanics are unrealistic. Anywho thank you for everything you've already done. :thumbup:
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • Gen. Smit wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      It was too OP, allowed players to create spy snapshots of whole countries within some minutes without any risk, and made spies less useful. Now there is at least some risk to get shot down, which is realistic. Enemies wouldnt just idle when over them scout planes are circling..
      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA
      well by ww2 standards I think that would be a VERY small range to be workable on the map.....
      I am not sure if this can be actually applied...
      On the other hand if this was modern warfare it would be applicable because long range AA defense missles (or whatever you guys call it I am just a kid) actually exist...
      Did I get that right?
    • Kyrollous wrote:

      Gen. Smit wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      It was too OP, allowed players to create spy snapshots of whole countries within some minutes without any risk, and made spies less useful. Now there is at least some risk to get shot down, which is realistic. Enemies wouldnt just idle when over them scout planes are circling..
      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA
      well by ww2 standards I think that would be a VERY small range to be workable on the map.....I am not sure if this can be actually applied...
      On the other hand if this was modern warfare it would be applicable because long range AA defense missles (or whatever you guys call it I am just a kid) actually exist...
      Did I get that right?
      Missiles would have about the same effectiveness range as CIWS or something similar, missiles launched from planes against planes would be far more effective.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • freezy wrote:

      Gen. Smit wrote:

      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA

      Fox-Company wrote:

      I agree with this, there should be a range where AA auto-initiates an attack of passing aircraft, it would be a lot more realistic, so AA doesn't have to be on the front lines fighting other attacking units while being bombarded by planes to protect those units.
      We at Bytro agree as well. It is one of the wanted features that is in our backlog for a long time already. Sadly implementing it would take some weeks of Dev work, that's why it so far did not get enough prio to be implemented. But maybe at some point in the future :D
      I have always wanted AA to have some sort of area of air engagement, something like a patrol ring but smaller and if the air unit enters that ring and the AA unit has a clean battle timer it would attack the air unit inside its area of engagement.

      I don't know if they've thought about implementing it that way. Something to think about or possibly an alternate idea that may make implementing it easier.
      Genghis Khanson
      Former Something or Other


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    • Genghis Khanson wrote:


      I don't know if they've thought about implementing it that way.

      freezy wrote:

      Sadly implementing it would take some weeks of Dev work, that's why it so far did not get enough prio to be implemented.
      I think he's saying that they did.
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.
    • Kyrollous wrote:

      Gen. Smit wrote:

      freezy wrote:

      It was too OP, allowed players to create spy snapshots of whole countries within some minutes without any risk, and made spies less useful. Now there is at least some risk to get shot down, which is realistic. Enemies wouldnt just idle when over them scout planes are circling..
      Ok I have been in anti air service, there is no way that enemy planes flying over territory are left alone by AA. It is thus only logical to implement a (smaller) radius for AA to be active even if not directly attacked, this is somewhere between 3-5 km depending type.So flying over this (small) area should at all times result in attack by AA
      well by ww2 standards I think that would be a VERY small range to be workable on the map.....I am not sure if this can be actually applied...
      On the other hand if this was modern warfare it would be applicable because long range AA defense missles (or whatever you guys call it I am just a kid) actually exist...
      Did I get that right?
      Here some resources: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category…War_II_anti-aircraft_guns

      AA-guns are usually limited by the "brissant" in the projectile, that explodes after a certain time, in missiles like the stinger its the same. In general, projectiles dont need to "hit", being in vicinity and explode is sufficient. In wwII some guns already had 10 km range, maybe some even more.
    • That would only be extremely heavy AA guns like the 88mm. These were minorities in overall air defense, most AA guns were 20- or 40mm with much lower range. Also need to consider that ranges for AA are mostly a vertical factor; "what altitude plane can your gun hit", and not a horizonal one like artillery ("how far can it shoot"). So I think point-defense range for AA guns should be really small, just three kilometers or so.
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.
    • Also worth mentioning that direct-plane-attack-vs-ground battles are the only battle in which defensive damage is applied first, presumably to simulate the fact that the ground AA would have gotten shots off prior to the planes attacking. I don't think a 3km radius is better than this solution, as it just seems like a more complicated method of getting at the same result. I suspect the vast majority of the instances in which a plane's dot gets within 3km of a ground unit's dot is when the plane is directly attacking.
    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Also worth mentioning that plane-vs-ground battles are the only instance in which defensive damage is applied first, presumably to simulate the fact that the ground AA would have gotten shots off prior to the planes attacking. I don't think a 3km radius is better than this solution, as it just seems like a more complicated method of getting at the same result.
      Technically it’s not the only instance. Your own interceptors on patrol over the target, if they are direct attacking do as well. It’s spectacularly effective to get a patrol in place in time for their direct attack, then have that patrol direct attack the enemy bombers.

      I agree with other comments. Yes it is odd that ground based AA don’t attack, but they are limited to targets under a certain altitude. If the patrol is at a high enough altitude, ground based AA is of no value. Not that surveillance planes exist in CoW, but this has been their defensive strategy since their special role was adapted essentially rely on a combination of altitude and speed for defense.
    • Genghis Khanson wrote:

      I have always wanted AA to have some sort of area of air engagement, something like a patrol ring but smaller and if the air unit enters that ring and the AA unit has a clean battle timer it would attack the air unit inside its area of engagement.
      I don't know if they've thought about implementing it that way. Something to think about or possibly an alternate idea that may make implementing it easier.
      We didnt plan out the details yet. Even just giving them a ranged attack vs planes only is tricky as well. A new patrol circle or area of defense effect could work. But all of them are new implementations that mess with combat logic which is usually a bigger topic.

      jubjub bird wrote:

      Also worth mentioning that direct-plane-attack-vs-ground battles are the only battle in which defensive damage is applied first, presumably to simulate the fact that the ground AA would have gotten shots off prior to the planes attacking. I don't think a 3km radius is better than this solution, as it just seems like a more complicated method of getting at the same result. I suspect the vast majority of the instances in which a plane's dot gets within 3km of a ground unit's dot is when the plane is directly attacking.
      The AA would need to have bigger range than 3km to have any relevant gameplay impact of course. But too big would be too unrealistic. We are a bit unrealistic with ranges already in the game tho, many ranged units can fire much longer than in reality due to gameplay reasons, so the same argument can be made for AA. So maybe some range value between 10 and 20? Would have to be tested in the end what feels right.

      The difference compared to passively ideling AA in a stack is that this offensive AA would not need to wait until the enemy airplane's tick. Right now an aircraft user can pull back airplanes at any point, its completely up to him when or if the airplane engages with ground units. He can let his planes fly across the enemy country without any risk of being shot down unless the enemy has planes as well. With a ranged AA this would change and planes could not scout and park over enemy countries risk-free anymore. it would also make interactions like averting a flying bomb or nuke bomber a bit easier to understand. Perhaps we could even remove the "ground armies strike first vs air" rule if we have ranged AA.

      But a I said, I dont see this coming in the near future but I am at least hopeful that it may be a possibility at some point.