Units Switching Defense?

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    • Units Switching Defense?

      Screenshot 2022-12-09 1.58.40 PM.png
      Previously the Infantry was defending, as seen they are in the province center when i attacked them, but now my LT's are defending..?
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    • The red line indicates the infantry started marching which would make them attack. So now it seems they are both attacking which means they are both also defending. I'm not sure what makes the defense icon turn on or off, but anytime a melee attacker inflicts damage on a target, the target should return defensive damage regardless of whether the icon is showing or not.

    • DxC wrote:

      The red line indicates the infantry started marching which would make them attack. So now it seems they are both attacking which means they are both also defending. I'm not sure what makes the defense icon turn on or off, but anytime a melee attacker inflicts damage on a target, the target should return defensive damage regardless of whether the icon is showing or not.
      The line legit does not matter, its the fact that an attacker is defending should not be happening, they were still when i attacked, as i stated before, and they are both attacking while the other defends which is confusing af.
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    • Fox-Company wrote:

      DxC wrote:

      The red line indicates the infantry started marching which would make them attack. So now it seems they are both attacking which means they are both also defending. I'm not sure what makes the defense icon turn on or off, but anytime a melee attacker inflicts damage on a target, the target should return defensive damage regardless of whether the icon is showing or not.
      The line legit does not matter, its the fact that an attacker is defending should not be happening, they were still when i attacked, as i stated before, and they are both attacking while the other defends which is confusing af.
      I don't follow you. DxC's explanation seems correct to me. When one party attacks, the other party defends. Your LTs attacked the stationary infantry, who were thus defending. However, at some point in the fight the infantry tried to move, which turned them into attackers as well, and thus your LTs became defenders. The attacks are on different timers, showing that the counter attack was initiated at a different time than the original attack.

      For another example of units simultaneously attacking and defending, consider naval combat between subs and ships. Both parties are attacking and both parties are defending, so each round the damage done is ~double the stated combat values (because each unit does both attack damage and defense damage, which are equal for naval units)

    • I think haphazardly you have from defense option clicked on the attacking units with your tanks selected and attacked them, switching thus from defense to attack, and inversely the infantry switched from attack to defense.

      Attacking units cannot enter by themselves in defensive mode, yet units in defensive mode can switch to attacking mode, and force the opponent in defense (I do this when offensive units are trapped in melee in defense modus

    • There is no "defense mode" per se. If a stack is attacked in melee range it will return defensive damage regardless of whatever else it is doing: moving, attacking, upgrading, disembarking, etc. If two melee stacks are attacking each other the defensive shield icon probably pops up on one when the attack tic goes off on the other, but the icon is just an indicator. Defensive damage will be returned to a melee attack regardless of the icon status.

    • DxC wrote:

      There is no "defense mode" per se. If a stack is attacked in melee range it will return defensive damage regardless of whatever else it is doing: moving, attacking, upgrading, disembarking, etc. If two melee stacks are attacking each other the defensive shield icon probably pops up on one when the attack tic goes off on the other, but the icon is just an indicator. Defensive damage will be returned to a melee attack regardless of the icon status.
      This is not a 100% correct (I thought to remember, i.e. disclaimer), if I get attacked in the province center I deal defensive damage, and the other party attacked. Now I have two options, wait for his next attack, or enter offensive mode with a counterattack. If I enter offensive mode, I will thus directly counter attack and the former attacking party will indeed defend. BUT I cannot enter defense only anymore. I will keep on attacking, if the other party does not retaliate with an attack 30 minutes after their initial attack they will stay in defensive mode and await my next attack 30 minutes after I made my first counterattack.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Gen. Smit ().

    • Gen. Smit wrote:

      BUT I cannot enter defense only anymore. I will keep on attacking, if the other party does not retaliate with an attack 30 minutes after their initial attack they will stay in defensive mode and await my next attack 30 minutes after I made the my first counterattack.
      Gen. Smit. That is not right. The other party will still attack every 30 minutes. You will both be attacking every 30 minutes, possibly on different schedules. Your attack doesn't disable or change his attack cycle. In a sense all stacks in the game are in "defense mode" all the time, because any time they are melee attacked they will defend. Defense is just part of the attack calculation, not some independent mode.

    • @DxC, I Think I am pretty sure that if you change initiative that the timings are changed, why?

      If I was an attacker I can attack not more often than every 30 minutes. Now iniative has been changed, I become defender. The timer for the attack remains the same and is indeed counting down, yet I am defender. The defender does NOT attack if the counter reaches 0 you have to trigger an attack, the timer never resets (block never empties no damage dealt) if you dont do anything. SO you may attack, but if you dont do anything (i.e. trigger the attack) you automatically opt out of the opportunity as far as I remember. Only in the case ot "two defenders"running into each other I believe the attack is being performed automatically. In the case of a standard attacking-defending-situation this is to my knowledge (I should say memory ;) ) not the case.

      But since I am of course not 100 % sure I will see whether there will be a situation where I can trigger this. I may just have overlooked that damage was still dealt upon original attack intervals. In any case it will be A or B and its good to be aware how it works.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Gen. Smit ().

    • Gen. Smit wrote:

      The bar says nothing, you should look at the absolute values of health left and damage values.
      The tank had 2.7 when it attacked and the infantry had 11.8...
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    • Gen. Smit wrote:

      @DxC, I Think I am pretty sure that if you change initiative that the timings are changed, why?

      If I was an attacker I can attack not more often than every 30 minutes. Now iniative has been changed, I become defender. The timer for the attack remains the same and is indeed counting down, yet I am defender. The defender does NOT attack if the counter reaches 0 you have to trigger an attack, the timer never resets (block never empties no damage dealt) if you dont do anything. SO you may attack, but if you dont do anything (i.e. trigger the attack) you automatically opt out of the opportunity as far as I remember. Only in the case ot "two defenders"running into each other I believe the attack is being performed automatically. In the case of a standard attacking-defending-situation this is to my knowledge (I should say memory ;) ) not the case.

      But since I am of course not 100 % sure I will see whether there will be a situation where I can trigger this. I may just have overlooked that damage was still dealt upon original attack intervals. In any case it will be A or B and its good to be aware how it works.
      DxC is right about this, Smit. When you are attacked in a province center you are initially only responding and returning damage in the enemy's attack round, and you don't have your own attack timer. You may decide to attack him back; in that case you ALSO become an attacker and there are two attack rounds per half hour (yours and his), on different timers. Once you started "also attacking" you cannot stop it until either side is dead.
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    • is it the same on the road, when both usually enter in defense modus? where there is thus a forced attack, for which I never checked the values because I always switch to offensive if they are offensive units or if I want to get rid of the enemies quickly without 30 minutes wait..

    • Thinking about a "defense mode" I think might be confusing you, as if there is some defense mode that is mutually exclusive from an attack mode. This is never the case. Like I said above, any unit will defend a melee attack tic any time one occurs so everything is sort of in defense mode all the time. You can be attacking a target whilst being attacked (and defending) from an unlimited number of other stacks simultaneously and that will never affect your attack cycle.

    • I understand that upon any attack you will defend. this is not the issue, and it is not confusing me. Attacks are limited to the timer be it 15 minutes for patrolling or 30 minutes for regular attacks.

      But what I questioned here was when a unit switched from an offensive action and was forced into a defensive action whether he would still be in the offense after, because I have never seen the switch back from a defensive status indicator and an involuntary emptying of the timer bar I always had to force my units into action. This may be because they always started in defense I guess.

    • DxC wrote:

      Thinking about a "defense mode" I think might be confusing you, as if there is some defense mode that is mutually exclusive from an attack mode. This is never the case. Like I said above, any unit will defend a melee attack tic any time one occurs so everything is sort of in defense mode all the time. You can be attacking a target whilst being attacked (and defending) from an unlimited number of other stacks simultaneously and that will never affect your attack cycle.
      I think im still stuck in the past of CoW 1.0, i cant fathom some of these updates to stuff
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