Propaganda offices

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    • Propaganda offices

      In a recent CoN game, I built some propaganda offices (about a dozen) in captured provinces for the first time; I wasn't greatly impressed... I'm not sure they are worth the resources, or tying up construction queue slots, especially early in the game.

      I'm hoping others will comment on their experiences and thoughts regarding propaganda offices...

    • Absolute garbage, never use them. I have only built 2 in my years of playing, i regret them both.

      Also, i believe in the words of the people, not dictatorship.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • I think in the core urban cities they are worth it to have a pretty high morale....you can't always capture multiple capitals...so having them is not only for getting higher ress/time also for higher unit production....problem which i see its often not really worth to capture non ressouce provinces because of the morale penalty. The problem is much bigger on the 22 player map (since the scaling is way differently) as for example on the antartika map.

    • On some of the bigger maps like WaW they have some use.

      Your empire can get so big that you have too many negative morale influences and you never hit 100% morale in your core regions, they hover around 90+%. A single Morale office can push your target morale back over 100% and your cores can gather resources with full morale.

      If you've gone up against a major player who had a lot of land and have over-run them then you can also get stuck with remote regions constantly stuck at sub 30% and risking rebellion as there's no capitals to capture. Propaganda offices can again push you over that 30% and stop you wasting time re-capturing regions.
      I find them to be quite a late game building, not needed in the early game.

    • Agree with the above. I rarely need them except in very late game situations on large maps where capital capture has slowed down (like if you're playing other humans and there aren't any AIs left). They don't help with newly-captured provinces because they take so long to build at 25% morale, but are very helpful in keeping resource production high and in keeping your main unit-producing cities, especially those near the front line, producing efficiently.

      Apparently I've built almost 800 in a bit over 40 games so I'm the opposite of Fox. I'd guess that most of those came in ~5 games in which I was managing large empires in drawn-out games.

    • Propaganda offices are what I build when I can't afford to leave a garrison behind in a newly captured province, but it has no resources (or next to none) so industry is useless. And even then, if the morale trend is rising, I usually prefer to risk a rebellion until my industry is at the point where I have vast stockpiles to throw around.
      A friend of mine who often ends up with huge, multi-continent-spanning empires says they're useful for keeping morale in check when the distance-to-capitol effect becomes significant; as someone who's mainly played Clash of Nations up until now, I wouldn't know.
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    • I probably wouldn't notice for a year or so if they were dropped from the build menu.
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    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      I probably wouldn't notice for a year or so if they were dropped from the build menu.
      I would never miss 'em, cause they are worth less than dirt for me.
      "I have not failed, i have just found 10,000 ways that wont work." - Thomas Edison

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    • I rarely use them, unless it’s a very very important province, or I have a BUTT TON of resources, where I’ll just select every city and build them. They aren’t very useful overall unless you have short term goal TBH.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • jubjub bird wrote:

      What short term goal would that be? They're least useful in short term situations; much like industry, their benefit comes from longer term situations.
      I mean like when I need to hold a province unit daychange, or to speed up a unit from a stolen cities production. Usually I find the offices not useful since they only effect one province (and this province going up does not raise its neighbors enough) and it ends up making placing units or letting it have a chance of revolt more worth it.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Right, my point is that using propaganda centers for those short term goals is a waste of resources, which is why you don't think they were that effective. They don't help you at all in the short term, only in the long term, which is why they are useful in late game on big maps but rarely otherwise.

    • jubjub bird wrote:

      Right, my point is that using propaganda centers for those short term goals is a waste of resources, which is why you don't think they were that effective. They don't help you at all in the short term, only in the long term, which is why they are useful in late game on big maps but rarely otherwise.
      I meant that’s the only time I find them effective, but you are right. Unless it’s late game on huge maps they are not to useful.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Carking the 6th wrote:

      I mean like when I need to hold a province unit daychange, or to speed up a unit from a stolen cities production. Usually I find the offices not useful since they only effect one province (and this province going up does not raise its neighbors enough) and it ends up making placing units or letting it have a chance of revolt more worth it.

      This is the problem with propaganda centers. They do NOT prevent rebellion. They help the city reach a higher top morale in the long run, days later. They do NOTHING on the first day. If your city starts at 25 morale and survives rebellion, it goes up to 35 morale, as usual. If it does not survive rebellion, you lose it, AND the propaganda center, to the enemy.

    • z00mz00m wrote:

      Carking the 6th wrote:

      I mean like when I need to hold a province unit daychange, or to speed up a unit from a stolen cities production. Usually I find the offices not useful since they only effect one province (and this province going up does not raise its neighbors enough) and it ends up making placing units or letting it have a chance of revolt more worth it.
      This is the problem with propaganda centers. They do NOT prevent rebellion. They help the city reach a higher top morale in the long run, days later. They do NOTHING on the first day. If your city starts at 25 morale and survives rebellion, it goes up to 35 morale, as usual. If it does not survive rebellion, you lose it, AND the propaganda center, to the enemy.
      • EXACTLY! They don’t matter long term as they don’t effect enough short term. You’re better off just taking the L or sending garrisons. Either way the same thing will happen.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Yea maybe the problem is that too many people think of them as rebellion-prevention when that really isn't their purpose.

      If we want them to play more of a rebellion prevention role, there are some potential changes to rebellion mechanics that could fix that:
      - Calculate next-day morale first, then determine whether a province rebels after. (I don't like this as a mechanic because then it's less clear which of your provinces could revolt and what the probability would be. Also, some times at end game target morale is lower than 25% so this would result in more end-game revolts, which is already annoying enough when you're just trying to end a map.)
      - Have the presence of a propaganda center reduce the revolt threshold by X% in addition to increasing target morale. (X = 5% would be enough to prevent most newly-captured provinces from revolting, though this can only apply to provinces captured in the first ~half of a day due to the construction time at low morale.)
      - Have the presence of a propaganda center reduce the revolt probability by X%, potentially increasing by level. (So it wouldn't prevent revolts entirely, but would have some small benefit in newly captured provinces. This is probably my favored option.)

    • I agree with most of what was said here. Propaganda offices are largely worthless. If I see a player building them, I usually consider them a noob.

      Like others have said, they are a late-game situational building. However they do have a use that I haven't seen mentioned yet. The situation I'm most likely to build them is mid to late game after I capture a city that has troop production buildings that I want to use. The propaganda offices are useful for getting the morale up quicker than it would go otherwise and it helps to build those units faster when you're already far from your core production centers. Otherwise, trying to build advanced units in a low morale city can take several days depending on the level of unit and building.