Low-level interceptors with high-level research?

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    • Low-level interceptors with high-level research?

      In a 1939: Historic World War match I'm engaged in, I'm doing some snooping around (AI) Japan with my submarines.
      I have noticed a large number (3+) level 1 interceptors patrolling around over the inland sea. I have also noticed a shufti kite flying over China (shared map) out of Taiwan, also level 1.
      They are all Japanese, and apart from the Taiwanese are all operating out of airstrips in the home islands.
      I've played Japan and China enough times to know Japan starts with lvl.3 interceptors and cannot produce lvl.1s.
      What is happening here? ?(
      Aeroplanes are interesting toys but of no military value.
      — Marshal Foch

      A pretty mechanical toy [...] the war will never be won by such machines.
      — Lord Kitchener, on tanks

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Lord Crayfish ().

    • There has been a glitch documented by a few folks where starting units in historical maps revert back to Level 1. We haven't figured out the exact circumstances for this, and as of the last update the dev team had been unable to replicate it. That might be what happened here, so the units are the result of a glitch and not because Japan produced underleveled units.

    • jubjub bird wrote:

      There has been a glitch documented by a few folks where starting units in historical maps revert back to Level 1. We haven't figured out the exact circumstances for this, and as of the last update the dev team had been unable to replicate it. That might be what happened here, so the units are the result of a glitch and not because Japan produced underleveled units.
      Yes! This happens to me all the time. It even happened is this US game I am doing. Usually it happens when I leave the unit and don’t touch it from the start. I come back and it is level one. This happens in Germany, USA, France, etc…

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Brando Dilla wrote:

      It makes me think twice before entering another HWW map, for fear that I will get swindled.

      Until then, Spain, Romania and Persia FTW.
      It only happens if you don’t move your units. It never happens to me if I make sure to move all my units.

      Also come on man Turkey?

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Carking the 6th wrote:

      Brando Dilla wrote:

      It makes me think twice before entering another HWW map, for fear that I will get swindled.

      Until then, Spain, Romania and Persia FTW.
      It only happens if you don’t move your units. It never happens to me if I make sure to move all my units.
      Also come on man Turkey?
      It's even happened to units I have moved. In a recent DotP game, I assembled my starting infantry in stacks of 5, and one of the stacks had all the infantry convert from level 3 to level 1.

      And Turkey is one of the better nations in HWW, if you ally the right people and don't get too greedy, there's a good chance for a CW.
      “A battle fought without determination is a battle lost.” - Josip Broz Tito

    • In my opinion, Turkey is terrible. I just won a solo with them mostly thanks to the inactivity of Britain and France. Turkey can not expand and achieve a defensible border area without starting a war with a major power. If either the British or the French, or the Soviets set their eyes on Turkey, Turkey is done for. There is nothing Turkey could do if these powers send their fleets to bombard the core coastal settlements - 4 out of 6 - and take them with 1 militia.

    • Fellenore wrote:

      In my opinion, Turkey is terrible. I just won a solo with them mostly thanks to the inactivity of Britain and France. Turkey can not expand and achieve a defensible border area without starting a war with a major power. If either the British or the French, or the Soviets set their eyes on Turkey, Turkey is done for. There is nothing Turkey could do if these powers send their fleets to bombard the core coastal settlements - 4 out of 6 - and take them with 1 militia.
      That’s why you need to be smart and prepare for that. It’s pretty easy to stop them once you have naval bombers and ships of your own. As for the Soviets it’s easy to get someone to attack with you, which then can easily overwhelm them. You can expand into the Balkans, Middle East, Africa and Asia. Colonial forces can’t really stop you while fighting other powers. If you ally the right people it’s even easier. Just don’t attack and use your time. Like they won’t send their whole fleet at you, then that would leave them vulnerable elsewhere.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Carking the 6th ().

    • Carking the 6th wrote:

      Fellenore wrote:

      In my opinion, Turkey is terrible. I just won a solo with them mostly thanks to the inactivity of Britain and France. Turkey can not expand and achieve a defensible border area without starting a war with a major power. If either the British or the French, or the Soviets set their eyes on Turkey, Turkey is done for. There is nothing Turkey could do if these powers send their fleets to bombard the core coastal settlements - 4 out of 6 - and take them with 1 militia.
      That’s why you need to be smart and prepare for that. It’s pretty easy to stop them once you have naval bombers and ships of your own. As for the Soviets it’s easy to get someone to attack with you, which then can easily overwhelm them. You can expand into the Balkans, Middle East, Africa and Asia. Colonial forces can’t really stop you while fighting other powers. If you ally the right people it’s even easier. Just don’t attack and use your time. Like they won’t send their whole fleet at you, then that would leave them vulnerable elsewhere.

      Naval bombers and ships?

      How long that will take to battle level 2-3 battleships, cruisers and destroyers effectively?

      And yes, if the diplomacy favors Turkey's survival, then Turkey can survive; like I said, I won with them solo not long ago. But if France or Britain (by extension, Italy) wants to defeat Turkey for whatever reasons, they can do it pretty easily on day 1.

      There is nothing Turkey can do if the British and the French use their Cyprus fleet to bombard the coastal cities. And if they start to bombard the coastal cities, the production will be ruined, thus it's game over on day 1.

    • Fellenore wrote:

      Carking the 6th wrote:

      Fellenore wrote:

      In my opinion, Turkey is terrible. I just won a solo with them mostly thanks to the inactivity of Britain and France. Turkey can not expand and achieve a defensible border area without starting a war with a major power. If either the British or the French, or the Soviets set their eyes on Turkey, Turkey is done for. There is nothing Turkey could do if these powers send their fleets to bombard the core coastal settlements - 4 out of 6 - and take them with 1 militia.
      That’s why you need to be smart and prepare for that. It’s pretty easy to stop them once you have naval bombers and ships of your own. As for the Soviets it’s easy to get someone to attack with you, which then can easily overwhelm them. You can expand into the Balkans, Middle East, Africa and Asia. Colonial forces can’t really stop you while fighting other powers. If you ally the right people it’s even easier. Just don’t attack and use your time. Like they won’t send their whole fleet at you, then that would leave them vulnerable elsewhere.
      Naval bombers and ships?

      How long that will take to battle level 2-3 battleships, cruisers and destroyers effectively?

      And yes, if the diplomacy favors Turkey's survival, then Turkey can survive; like I said, I won with them solo not long ago. But if France or Britain (by extension, Italy) wants to defeat Turkey for whatever reasons, they can do it pretty easily on day 1.

      There is nothing Turkey can do if the British and the French use their Cyprus fleet to bombard the coastal cities. And if they start to bombard the coastal cities, the production will be ruined, thus it's game over on day 1.
      You seem to automatically assume they would just send their whole fleet to crush you when they have thousands other things to do. The French only have about 3-4 ships and no battleships in the Middle East. That’s pretty easy to use Artillery, lower level ships including battleships, and planes to take out. Means while invading Syria is easy. The UK is more of a problem, but if you take a few days to build enough ships and planes you can usually overwhelm that fleet in Cyprus if 7-9 ships, that the UK also like to move to other places quite often. Now if they throw in the Fleet from Malta it becomes more of an issue, and that’s where your best idea is to find someone who can attack the UK with you, as unless you had taken out that other fleet and still have a decent amount of ships and planes with good health.

      As Turkey, France has attacked me before on day one. I ended up defeating them and taking Syria and Lebanon. Now I’ll concede that if the UK attacks on day one and is psychotic enough to also use the Malta fleet too, you are probably doomed. But that’s quite rare, the UK would be dumb and opening themselves for others to attack. It can be somewhat countered by having say Italy, China, Venezuela and Egypt all attack their colonies near them, screwing them over and forcing their fleet to pull to elsewhere. You may be screwed for the rest of the game even if you live, but if you are smart you can rebuild and bounce back.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Carking the 6th wrote:

      Fellenore wrote:

      Carking the 6th wrote:

      Fellenore wrote:

      In my opinion, Turkey is terrible. I just won a solo with them mostly thanks to the inactivity of Britain and France. Turkey can not expand and achieve a defensible border area without starting a war with a major power. If either the British or the French, or the Soviets set their eyes on Turkey, Turkey is done for. There is nothing Turkey could do if these powers send their fleets to bombard the core coastal settlements - 4 out of 6 - and take them with 1 militia.
      That’s why you need to be smart and prepare for that. It’s pretty easy to stop them once you have naval bombers and ships of your own. As for the Soviets it’s easy to get someone to attack with you, which then can easily overwhelm them. You can expand into the Balkans, Middle East, Africa and Asia. Colonial forces can’t really stop you while fighting other powers. If you ally the right people it’s even easier. Just don’t attack and use your time. Like they won’t send their whole fleet at you, then that would leave them vulnerable elsewhere.
      Naval bombers and ships?
      How long that will take to battle level 2-3 battleships, cruisers and destroyers effectively?

      And yes, if the diplomacy favors Turkey's survival, then Turkey can survive; like I said, I won with them solo not long ago. But if France or Britain (by extension, Italy) wants to defeat Turkey for whatever reasons, they can do it pretty easily on day 1.

      There is nothing Turkey can do if the British and the French use their Cyprus fleet to bombard the coastal cities. And if they start to bombard the coastal cities, the production will be ruined, thus it's game over on day 1.
      You seem to automatically assume they would just send their whole fleet to crush you when they have thousands other things to do. The French only have about 3-4 ships and no battleships in the Middle East. That’s pretty easy to use Artillery, lower level ships including battleships, and planes to take out. Means while invading Syria is easy. The UK is more of a problem, but if you take a few days to build enough ships and planes you can usually overwhelm that fleet in Cyprus if 7-9 ships, that the UK also like to move to other places quite often. Now if they throw in the Fleet from Malta it becomes more of an issue, and that’s where your best idea is to find someone who can attack the UK with you, as unless you had taken out that other fleet and still have a decent amount of ships and planes with good health.
      As Turkey, France has attacked me before on day one. I ended up defeating them and taking Syria and Lebanon. Now I’ll concede that if the UK attacks on day one and is psychotic enough to also use the Malta fleet too, you are probably doomed. But that’s quite rare, the UK would be dumb and opening themselves for others to attack. It can be somewhat countered by having say Italy, China, Venezuela and Egypt all attack their colonies near them, screwing them over and forcing their fleet to pull to elsewhere. You may be screwed for the rest of the game even if you live, but if you are smart you can rebuild and bounce back.
      Should I say that you seem to automatically assume that someone else will save you by diverting UK and France resources? :)

      Btw no, there is a French battleship (lvl 2) at day 1 near Cyprus. And yes, I know that these can be countered with diplomacy, focus and luck. But as a general rule of thumb (like I outlined before) IF the French or the UK wants to knock out Turkey for whatever reason, they can do it, and there's not much Turkey can do about it.

    • Fellenore wrote:

      Btw no, there is a French battleship (lvl 2) at day 1 near Cyprus. And yes, I know that these can be countered with diplomacy, focus and luck. But as a general rule of thumb (like I outlined before) IF the French or the UK wants to knock out Turkey for whatever reason, they can do it, and there's not much Turkey can do about it.
      In most games, Italy will be fighting France anyway and will be wanting all the allies it can get.
      This is useful to exploit.
      Aeroplanes are interesting toys but of no military value.
      — Marshal Foch

      A pretty mechanical toy [...] the war will never be won by such machines.
      — Lord Kitchener, on tanks

    • Fellenore wrote:

      Should I say that you seem to automatically assume that someone else will save you by diverting UK and France resources? :)
      Btw no, there is a French battleship (lvl 2) at day 1 near Cyprus. And yes, I know that these can be countered with diplomacy, focus and luck. But as a general rule of thumb (like I outlined before) IF the French or the UK wants to knock out Turkey for whatever reason, they can do it, and there's not much Turkey can do about it.
      I’ve played Turkey many times, never seen this battleship. But ether way this doesn’t change much, you can get 2 level one battleships and 3 cruisers level 1 cruisers pretty quick, and then work with planes to crush the French fleet. Like yeah sure you can say they could take out Turkey, but that’s a given. The Japanese can take out China and Germans the Poles, but even then I see them loose when those wars start on day one sometimes. Nothing is guaranteed, as long as you are smart about it.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate

    • Carking the 6th wrote:


      I’ve played Turkey many times, never seen this battleship. But ether way this doesn’t change much, you can get 2 level one battleships and 3 cruisers level 1 cruisers pretty quick, and then work with planes to crush the French fleet. Like yeah sure you can say they could take out Turkey, but that’s a given. The Japanese can take out China and Germans the Poles, but even then I see them loose when those wars start on day one sometimes. Nothing is guaranteed, as long as you are smart about it.

      Sure. First you have to build a naval base, research the necessary researches, and yeah, then you can. By that time, of course, the French can outproduce you in their Levantese colonies. But yeah, everything is possible if you're smart about it (and if your stronger opponent is not fighting against you specifically).
      Images

      • French fleet.JPG

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    • Fellenore wrote:

      Carking the 6th wrote:

      I’ve played Turkey many times, never seen this battleship. But ether way this doesn’t change much, you can get 2 level one battleships and 3 cruisers level 1 cruisers pretty quick, and then work with planes to crush the French fleet. Like yeah sure you can say they could take out Turkey, but that’s a given. The Japanese can take out China and Germans the Poles, but even then I see them loose when those wars start on day one sometimes. Nothing is guaranteed, as long as you are smart about it.
      Sure. First you have to build a naval base, research the necessary researches, and yeah, then you can. By that time, of course, the French can outproduce you in their Levantese colonies. But yeah, everything is possible if you're smart about it (and if your stronger opponent is not fighting against you specifically).
      One thing, that is only 3 ships. In the end, that’s just 3 ships. They also can’t, remember that they will now waste resources for Turkey when metropolitan France should be getting most buildings and resources, meanwhile the colonies only get just enough. The point is I’m not considering all our war between only France and Turkey and France being completely focused there, because that’s never gonna happen with a good player. 3 ships level 2 and 3 can be countered in 12 hours by a about double the amount, plus a few naval bombers. Though jt will require all your resources. Also what game day are you on, did the Soviets invade Turkey? Damn lol.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate