Let’s Have A Moment Of Silence...

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    • z00mz00m wrote:

      I grew up in Tito's Yugoslavia, and I know it was not any kind of perfect society. But it was arguably on the way to becoming a functional one. Fascists and Nationalists and Theocrats (of all types) were actively suppressed early on. It was: "Treat everyone like your brother... or ELSE."

      From hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP…stashi%2C%20and%20critics

      > The Croatians alone may have murdered some 655,000 people, the greater majority Serbs.
      > The Tito regime itself killed in cold blood some 500,000 people, mainly "collaborators," "anti-communists,"
      > rival guerrillas, Ustashi, and critics.

      and

      > Some estimates of the number killed in Croatian concentration camps are also listed (lines 240 to 242),
      > but these dead are surely included in the estimates for the Jews, Gypsies, and Serb deaths, and therefore
      > not consolidated. I conclude that the total democide by the Croatians is 242,000 to 1,088,000 people (line 245).

      Without Tito, the most likely outcome of the war is a Serbian state on the side of the Allies defeating a Croatian state on the side of the Nazis. The best case for the Croats are war reparations. The worst case is mass revenge, and the end of an independent Croatian state.

      With Tito, Croatia didn't even have to apologize for exterminating all those people, much less pay reparations or suffer any consequences. Croatia had equal rights in the federal government, and proceeded to benefit greatly from its position as the #1 tourist destination in the country, with all the cash and development tourism brought. Other parts of the country didn't do nearly as well. Except Slovenia, which interestingly is another pro-German state.

      Any Croatian who understands history should wake up every morning and pray to Tito's memory.

      Tito saved Croatia from any kind of punishment, but unfortunately he also allowed the Croatian state and education system to "forget" its bloody roots.
      Lies, misleading statements, and attempts to bury the truth... you Yugoslavs haven't changed, have you?

      I also grew up in Tito's Yugoslavia (in Dubrovnik) and I can tell you for a fact that the communist regime plucked people off the streets, raided entire neighborhoods, and would do everything possible to exterminate anyone who so much as hinted at any anti-Tito ideals! My grandparents were alive during this time and saw these massacres with their own eyes. Several of their friends were taken away, never to be seen again.

      Don't give Tito credit for knowing his backside from his elbow. He knew damn well that if he made the Ustashi pay reparations or some other kind of punishment, they would not comply easily, and then full-out conflict would break loose between Ustashi and other fascist groups, and Serbian/Croatian antifascists. If such a conflict started, there would be little Tito could do about it. It's sad that fascism has such a strong following in the pan-Yugoslav community.

      "Without Tito, the most likely outcome of the war is a Serbian state on the side of the Allies defeating a Croatian state on the side of the Nazis ... the worst case is mass revenge ..." Apparently you fail to remember that Serbia was also on the side of the Nazis in WW2 (Serbia was the second Jew-free country in Europe while Croatia still had about 140,000 Jews by 1945) and caused more deaths than the Ustashi, if you add up crimes commited by both Nedic's Serbia and Tito's partisans (which is not even mentioned in that pro-Serb source you referenced). And the Serbs did get "revenge", in the Yugoslav wars/Bosnian genocide in the 1990s.

      Also, those casualty numbers committed by "Croatians" (why not Ustashi?) are oddly high, considering Yugoslavia's total amount of casualties in WW2 (approximately 1.5 million). The Berlioz Institute, as well as Wikipedia list the total deaths caused by the Ustashi at closer to 300,000, less than the casualty number of Tito's Yugoslavia.

      Your whole response attempts to portray all Croatians as Ustashi or fascist, while in reality, less than 3 percent of Croatia's WW2 population were members of the Ustashi. You also fail to acknowledge the Croatian antifascist resistance movement and how many Jews and other persecuted people they saved from being captured by the Nazis/Ustashi.

      Do not judge people only based on ONE thing. Every coin has TWO sides.
    • Carking the 6th wrote:

      Brando Dilla wrote:

      Why is everyone suddenly claiming they are of Yugoslavian heritage? 3 people have done so in the past week.
      You’re from Yugoslavia, he’s from Yugoslavia, IM FROM YUGOSLAVIA! Are there any other Yugoslavs I should know about? *meow*
      You get a Yugoslav, You get a Yugoslav, Everyone gets a Yugoslav!
      “A battle fought without determination is a battle lost.” - Josip Broz Tito
    • We're not going to convince each other about which band of bandits was worse than the other: communists, chetniks, ustashe.

      Some things are indisputable. Croatia ran concentration camps that systematically destroyed entire populations. No amount of misdirection or whataboutism can change that.

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ho…ependent_State_of_Croatia

      Nothing comes remotely close to that. Not then, not now. Except Nazi Germany. They were better at wiping people out, because Germans are just more efficient at everything they do, good or bad.
    • z00mz00m wrote:

      We're not going to convince each other about which band of bandits was worse than the other: communists, chetniks, ustashe.

      Some things are indisputable. Croatia ran concentration camps that systematically destroyed entire populations. No amount of misdirection or whataboutism can change that.

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ho…ependent_State_of_Croatia

      Nothing comes remotely close to that. Not then, not now. Except Nazi Germany. They were better at wiping people out, because Germans are just more efficient at everything they do, good or bad.
      isn’t that just whataboutism? Like this doesn’t make Yugoslavia any better just because the Croats also committed some crimes. No state in that time had any moral high ground to be honest.

      Also Croatian crimes don’t even come close to Japanese, Chinese, Russian, British and even American crimes in scale.. I’m not trying to compare crimes here but stating that only the Nazis of were capable of more is plain wrong…

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
    • From inavukic.com:

      Croatian people wanted independence for centuries, just as they had it until the twelfth century but fate was not on their side – others wanted their beautiful land. In late 1980′s the will to break free from Yugoslavia which suffocated freedom and self determination through harsh communist party rule finally bore the desired fruit.
      In June 1991 Croatia declared its independence; soon after the aggressive war against Croatia broke out. The struggle of the Croatian people for self-determination was a just one. But I fear genuine justice has not been served as there have been, and there still exist, international covert and overt moves to equate victims with aggressors continue in attempts to change history. Truth often becomes obscured and lost and that is why I have chosen to write this blog, to concentrate on actual events and issues about Croatia – wishing it a bright and freedom-loving future.
      It certainly was not easy to come out of the war that was fought on two fronts:
      1. On the military front the world’s public has seen the indiscriminate bombardment of Croatian cities, towns and villages from land, sea and air; the destruction of civilian targets including homes, schools, hospitals, churches, factories and cultural monuments; the blockading and destruction of roads, bridges and ports; the blockading of power, water, food and medical supplies. What hasn’t been shown on our television sets is the forced clearing and evacuation of towns and villages, followed by looting, torture, rape and murder carried out by the Serbian forces, who were initially backed by the federal Yugoslav army that was largely constituted by Serb nationals; the transportation of multiple hundreds of innocent Croatian civilians from Croatia into concentration camps Serbia (Begejci, Stajicevo, Sremska Mitrovica... from October 1991, and later (1992) transferred into Serb-held camps in Bosnia and Herzegovina (Omarska, Keratern, Manjaca, Trnopolje).
      2. The second front was the war of political propaganda centred on: misinformation about the rights of minorities in Croatia; portrayal of the Croatian people as Ustasha or Fascists; the representation of the Croatian defence forces as illegal paramilitary units; the representation of the Croatian and Slovenian republics as unreasonable secessionists who are unwilling to negotiate; a regurgitation of distorted facts about World War II.
      Indeed Croatia had an absolute right to defend itself and this is often forgotten if not often denied it.
    • Claudio NVKP wrote:

      Carking the 6th wrote:

      Idk Claudio, what have you done? Seems quite suspicious
      Cavoglave, the song.

      Me:Write me fan-fiction about the Soviet Union


      ChatGPT:As an AI language model, I do not promote any political ideology or regime, and I do not condone or endorse any actions that may have caused harm to individuals or societies. However, I can write a hypothetical fan-fiction story about the Soviet Union.
      Once upon a time, in an alternate universe, the Soviet Union became a utopian society where everyone was equal, and the state provided for all their needs. There were no more struggles or conflicts between classes, and people worked together for the common good.
      In this world, Mikhail Gorbachev was never removed from power, and he continued his reforms, leading the Soviet Union to an unprecedented era of prosperity and innovation. The country was no longer focused on military expansion or the Cold War, but on scientific research, space exploration, and the improvement of the standard of living for its citizens.
      The Soviet Union became a beacon of hope for the world, inspiring other nations to follow its path towards socialism. People from all over the world flocked to Moscow to learn about the Soviet way of life, and the country opened its borders to welcome them.
      The Soviet Union became a leader in environmental protection, developing sustainable energy sources and pioneering eco-friendly technologies. The country also became a center of culture, with its literature, music, and art inspiring people around the world.
      The Soviet people enjoyed freedom of expression and thought, and the government encouraged diversity and creativity. People were free to express their opinions, and the government listened to them, making changes based on their needs and desires.
      The Soviet Union became a paradise on Earth, where everyone was happy, and everyone had everything they needed. The world looked up to the Soviet Union as an example of how a socialist society could work and thrive.
      And so, in this alternate universe, the Soviet Union continued to flourish, and the people lived in peace, equality, and abundance for generations to come.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
    • Me:now make it anime

      ChatGPT:In a world where the Soviet Union never fell, the country had transformed into a magical land filled with mystery and wonder. The people of the Soviet Union were now imbued with magical powers, and they lived in harmony with the mystical creatures that roamed the land.
      The story followed a group of young Soviet mages, led by a fiery young woman named Svetlana, as they traveled across the land, seeking to unite the different factions of mages and creatures to prevent a looming threat.
      Along the way, they encountered many challenges, battling against evil forces that sought to use their powers for their own nefarious purposes. They also discovered long-forgotten secrets about the history of the Soviet Union, and the true origins of their magical powers.
      As they journeyed on, the group grew closer, forging strong bonds of friendship and loyalty. Svetlana, the leader of the group, was a powerful mage, capable of summoning the elements and wielding them with incredible precision. Her second-in-command, Yuri, was a skilled warrior who used his magic to enhance his strength and speed.
      They were joined by Olga, a shy and introverted mage who had a gift for healing magic, and Sergei, a brash and impulsive mage who loved to create powerful explosions with his magic.
      Together, they embarked on a quest to stop a dark mage who sought to enslave the entire Soviet Union and use their magic to dominate the world. They battled through fierce battles and faced their own personal demons, growing stronger and more powerful with each challenge they faced.
      In the end, they succeeded in defeating the dark mage, but not without sacrifice. Svetlana had to give up her own magical powers to save her friends, but she knew that it was a small price to pay to save the Soviet Union.
      The story ended with the group standing together, watching as the sun set over the Soviet Union. They knew that their journey was not over, but they were ready for whatever the future held.

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
    • Domanoj Broj wrote:

      Brando Dilla wrote:

      Domanoj Broj wrote:

      And the Serbs did get "revenge", in the Yugoslav wars/Bosnian genocide in the 1990s.
      LOLHa ha - that's a pretty good one.
      What do you mean
      I mean that the Serb/Yugoslav government is not responsible for the crimes in Bosnia. They were planned and executed by the Republika Srpska, an only partly-recognized state. Meanwhile, between 1941-1945 the Ustaše government was recognized as the sole Croatian nation.
      “A battle fought without determination is a battle lost.” - Josip Broz Tito