Destroyers are overrated, change my mind

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    • Destroyers are overrated, change my mind

      Destroyers just suck!

      According to dxcalc, a stack of 2 l3 subs will kill a single l3 destroyer in 2 turns, while only losing half their hp. (all units were allied in sim)

      So why should i use destroyers when you need an unreasonable amt of them just to kill subs, and they get killed by virtually any other naval unit? Cant naval bombers do the job just fine?
    • Really, in a game right now, i sank 30 allied battleships, 5 level 3 destroyers, and 7 level 2 cruisers with 10 level 4 axis subs. I lost one, but it was worth it. If he had had 30 destroyers i would have been torn apart.
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    • TheZhukov wrote:

      Really, in a game right now, i sank 30 allied battleships, 5 level 3 destroyers, and 7 level 2 cruisers with 10 level 4 axis subs. I lost one, but it was worth it. If he had had 30 destroyers i would have been torn apart.
      But it seems like a waste of money and resource

      oil is not plentiful in early to mid game and you can use it for other stuff (like tacs and armor
    • Completely agree with Wednesday, but also with the other posters!

      The problem of dessies is that they aren't good enough at their job, and equal numbers of equal levels of dessies versus subs only produce marginal victories. That's just not good enough for a single-purpose unit; they should WRECK subs just like subs currently WRECK other surface ships.

      When you want protection against subs, naval bombers are SO far superior!
      - They aren't single-purpose like destoryers and can take on all kinds of ships (possibly excepting cruisers, that's a different discussion);
      - They have much more operational scouting, it is so much easier to patrol a wide sea range;
      - They take virtually no damage at all when taking out a sub stack.

      If you're going to counter that their areas of operation are more limited because of air bases and the reach from there: build carriers! The extra cost for launching them is easily compensated by the three points above, PLUS carriers can house different planes as well and support long-distance invasions (something a dessie certainly can't do).
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
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    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      Completely agree with Wednesday, but also with the other posters!

      The problem of dessies is that they aren't good enough at their job, and equal numbers of equal levels of dessies versus subs only produce marginal victories. That's just not good enough for a single-purpose unit; they should WRECK subs just like subs currently WRECK other surface ships.

      When you want protection against subs, naval bombers are SO far superior!
      - They aren't single-purpose like destoryers and can take on all kinds of ships (possibly excepting cruisers, that's a different discussion);
      - They have much more operational scouting, it is so much easier to patrol a wide sea range;
      - They take virtually no damage at all when taking out a sub stack.

      If you're going to counter that their areas of operation are more limited because of air bases and the reach from there: build carriers! The extra cost for launching them is easily compensated by the three points above, PLUS carriers can house different planes as well and support long-distance invasions (something a dessie certainly can't do).

      CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      Completely agree with Wednesday, but also with the other posters!

      The problem of dessies is that they aren't good enough at their job, and equal numbers of equal levels of dessies versus subs only produce marginal victories. That's just not good enough for a single-purpose unit; they should WRECK subs just like subs currently WRECK other surface ships.

      When you want protection against subs, naval bombers are SO far superior!
      - They aren't single-purpose like destoryers and can take on all kinds of ships (possibly excepting cruisers, that's a different discussion);
      - They have much more operational scouting, it is so much easier to patrol a wide sea range;
      - They take virtually no damage at all when taking out a sub stack.

      If you're going to counter that their areas of operation are more limited because of air bases and the reach from there: build carriers! The extra cost for launching them is easily compensated by the three points above, PLUS carriers can house different planes as well and support long-distance invasions (something a dessie certainly can't do).
    • Destroyers are an essential part of a strong naval force even if they aren't the firepower kings we all crave.

      True they are protectors more than hunters, but if used within their capabilities they can fill certain gaps as follows:
      - They can help monitor enemy amphibious operations when total ship units are in short supply.
      - They are the fastest ships out there, - can outrange naval aircraft (units I really like just to be clear), -and they can lock down a fleeing enemy while slower fleet ships catch up.

      Sure, many of these things can put DDs through the damage wringer, but they are replaceable and the damaged can go on homeguard duty, paired with subs, for example.
    • Knight Hiker wrote:

      Destroyers are an essential part of a strong naval force even if they aren't the firepower kings we all crave.

      True they are protectors more than hunters, but if used within their capabilities they can fill certain gaps as follows:
      - They can help monitor enemy amphibious operations when total ship units are in short supply.
      - They are the fastest ships out there, - can outrange naval aircraft (units I really like just to be clear), -and they can lock down a fleeing enemy while slower fleet ships catch up.

      Sure, many of these things can put DDs through the damage wringer, but they are replaceable and the damaged can go on homeguard duty, paired with subs, for example.
      Yeah I actually agree with what you said: They can also destroy enemy convoys or even just stop them until the fleet arrives. Recently I was UK in historic, attacked Egypt, Egypt's army fled to Turkey, but my destroyers from the Cyprus and Malta Fleet stopped them (miraculously I predicted their likely course) and my battleships finished the convoys in my sleep :)
      "Towards the submarine men, one felt an utter disgust and loathing; they were nothing but an abomination, polluting the clean sea."
    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      Completely agree with Wednesday, but also with the other posters!

      The problem of dessies is that they aren't good enough at their job, and equal numbers of equal levels of dessies versus subs only produce marginal victories. That's just not good enough for a single-purpose unit; they should WRECK subs just like subs currently WRECK other surface ships.

      When you want protection against subs, naval bombers are SO far superior!
      - They aren't single-purpose like destoryers and can take on all kinds of ships (possibly excepting cruisers, that's a different discussion);
      - They have much more operational scouting, it is so much easier to patrol a wide sea range;
      - They take virtually no damage at all when taking out a sub stack.

      If you're going to counter that their areas of operation are more limited because of air bases and the reach from there: build carriers! The extra cost for launching them is easily compensated by the three points above, PLUS carriers can house different planes as well and support long-distance invasions (something a dessie certainly can't do).
      I actually don't believe what you said, destroyers protect your fleet anytime of the day (as long as you don't split them obviously), but naval bombers don't. Aircraft have a flying corridor (red cone) and to patrol outside of that they gotta go back to base first. Also if you sleep off, the bombers can be attacked by interceptors (patrol) or even cruisers potentially, or even the fleet could go too far into submarine traps. If you keep the fleet static, then you gotta think about air defence buddy.
      "Towards the submarine men, one felt an utter disgust and loathing; they were nothing but an abomination, polluting the clean sea."
    • WednesdayAddams wrote:

      Destroyers just suck!

      According to dxcalc, a stack of 2 l3 subs will kill a single l3 destroyer in 2 turns, while only losing half their hp. (all units were allied in sim)

      So why should i use destroyers when you need an unreasonable amt of them just to kill subs, and they get killed by virtually any other naval unit? Cant naval bombers do the job just fine?
      Reply to the above: each unit has it's purpose. Naval bombers can't do the job just fine if you're sleeping. It depends on some conditions though, sometimes you just gotta have destroyers, sometimes no need maybe. On first day, barely anybody researches submarines (why not battleships?) and you can delay destroyer research. Sometimes Destroyers can fight ships, if leveled high.
      "Towards the submarine men, one felt an utter disgust and loathing; they were nothing but an abomination, polluting the clean sea."
    • Nobodyx2 wrote:

      TheZhukov wrote:

      Sail around wihtout destroyers and get wrecked, you need 10 destroyers per naval stack
      @TheZhukov you need resources for that, I'd say you need about only 5 destroyers max. in a start from scratch game like WaW where your economy is trash.
      By day 13 you should have a powerful economy
      Glory to the Union!

      Glory to the Red Army!

      Glory to the Revolution!

      Marshal of the Forum High Command