Lord Crayfish wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they the ideal zerg rush unit on day 1?
Light tanks are cheaper than artillery (esp. in goods), do more damage against infantry (esp. in plains), and are faster. Armoured cars may be better against infantry but light tanks give them teeth. Arty may be useful in cleaning up the units in cities though.

I reckon knocking out 4 each of AC and LT and then making fast armoured stacks supplemented with starting infantry and some arty would be the ideal Day 1 tactic.

Or is artillery better? It's slower, weaker on day 1, has fewer HP, and is and more expensive, but it's potent in hills and can take zero damage.
(In Allied, I mean. Other doctrines may have their own day 1 strategies)

Cost:	Money	Food	Goods	Manpower	Steel	Oil	Total	Time	Dmg:	vs Inf.	vs. Light Armour
AC	1390	-	490	1060	740	620	4300	2 hrs		3.0 / 4.5	1.0 / 1.5
LT	1390	-	400	1060	800	650	4300	2,25 hrs		2.7	4.0
Arty	1230	560	1300(!)	1060	310	-	4460	2,25 hrs		1.5	2.0

SamPGS_17 wrote:

@Fox-Company

Lord Crayfish wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they the ideal zerg rush unit on day 1?
Light tanks are cheaper than artillery (esp. in goods), do more damage against infantry (esp. in plains), and are faster. Armoured cars may be better against infantry but light tanks give them teeth. Arty may be useful in cleaning up the units in cities though.

I reckon knocking out 4 each of AC and LT and then making fast armoured stacks supplemented with starting infantry and some arty would be the ideal Day 1 tactic.

Or is artillery better? It's slower, weaker on day 1, has fewer HP, and is and more expensive, but it's potent in hills and can take zero damage.
(In Allied, I mean. Other doctrines may have their own day 1 strategies)

Cost:	Money	Food	Goods	Manpower	Steel	Oil	Total	Time	Dmg:	vs Inf.	vs. Light Armour
AC	1390	-	490	1060	740	620	4300	2 hrs		3.0 / 4.5	1.0 / 1.5
LT	1390	-	400	1060	800	650	4300	2,25 hrs		2.7	4.0
Arty	1230	560	1300(!)	1060	310	-	4460	2,25 hrs		1.5	2.0

GingerParty84 wrote:

Lord Crayfish wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they the ideal zerg rush unit on day 1?
Light tanks are cheaper than artillery (esp. in goods), do more damage against infantry (esp. in plains), and are faster. Armoured cars may be better against infantry but light tanks give them teeth. Arty may be useful in cleaning up the units in cities though.

I reckon knocking out 4 each of AC and LT and then making fast armoured stacks supplemented with starting infantry and some arty would be the ideal Day 1 tactic.

Or is artillery better? It's slower, weaker on day 1, has fewer HP, and is and more expensive, but it's potent in hills and can take zero damage.
(In Allied, I mean. Other doctrines may have their own day 1 strategies)

Cost:	Money	Food	Goods	Manpower	Steel	Oil	Total	Time	Dmg:	vs Inf.	vs. Light Armour
AC	1390	-	490	1060	740	620	4300	2 hrs		3.0 / 4.5	1.0 / 1.5
LT	1390	-	400	1060	800	650	4300	2,25 hrs		2.7	4.0
Arty	1230	560	1300(!)	1060	310	-	4460	2,25 hrs		1.5	2.0

Thanks for including the numbers! I wouldn't assign much value to one over the other with just these. The huge terrain, home defense, home strength and terrain speed bonuses create such huge swings in these numbers that each country and situation (surrounded by AI, have a veteran player next to you or maybe a rush from a less experienced person) needs it's own consideration for army structure and attack planning.
Oh yeah, and discipline bonuses make a huge difference. For instance, if I'm commtrn, the cost of arty is so cheap it's basically a no-brainer, except if I'm expanding into an area like northeast Africa (desert mostly and longer distances so speed is more important) then light tanks and AC are way better for a fast and terrain friendly (50% speed / strength bonus) attack.

Also, with the huge bonus to AT with commtrn, I can easily and quickly counter LTs...

GingerParty84 wrote:

Thanks for including the numbers! I wouldn't assign much value to one over the other with just these. The huge terrain, home defense, home strength and terrain speed bonuses create such huge swings in these numbers that each country and situation (surrounded by AI, have a veteran player next to you or maybe a rush from a less experienced person) needs it's own consideration for army structure and attack planning.
Oh yeah, and discipline bonuses make a huge difference. For instance, if I'm commtrn, the cost of arty is so cheap it's basically a no-brainer, except if I'm expanding into an area like northeast Africa (desert mostly and longer distances so speed is more important) then light tanks and AC are way better for a fast and terrain friendly (50% speed / strength bonus) attack.

Also, with the huge bonus to AT with commtrn, I can easily and quickly counter LTs...

Fox-Company wrote:

Name one Comintern player who actually invests in Anti Tank every game. They don't, because if their enemy turns out it have mostly infantry they're screwed and cant do anything because they spent half their beginning of the game getting good AT's

Lord Crayfish wrote:

GingerParty84 wrote:

Thanks for including the numbers! I wouldn't assign much value to one over the other with just these. The huge terrain, home defense, home strength and terrain speed bonuses create such huge swings in these numbers that each country and situation (surrounded by AI, have a veteran player next to you or maybe a rush from a less experienced person) needs it's own consideration for army structure and attack planning.
Oh yeah, and discipline bonuses make a huge difference. For instance, if I'm commtrn, the cost of arty is so cheap it's basically a no-brainer, except if I'm expanding into an area like northeast Africa (desert mostly and longer distances so speed is more important) then light tanks and AC are way better for a fast and terrain friendly (50% speed / strength bonus) attack.

Also, with the huge bonus to AT with commtrn, I can easily and quickly counter LTs...

Nevertheless, arty cost three times as many goods for 2/3 of the damage to unarmoured (albeit they are ranged). IMO it's always good to upgrade your infantry to lvl.2 on Day 2, regardless of whether you plan to build more, because at that stage they're still the backbone of your army. Is it worth building large numbers of units requiring goods when this will impede ability to do so?

Fox-Company wrote:

Name one Comintern player who actually invests in Anti Tank every game. They don't, because if their enemy turns out it have mostly infantry they're screwed and cant do anything because they spent half their beginning of the game getting good AT's

I always research anti-tank to lvl.1 in Comintern, so if an enemy does produce tanks I can churn out a stack and then upgrade them. Also one AT one AA and one AC per arty stack is a must (or at least units filling these roles)
By the way: Comintern has reduced unit production costs but not explicitly lower upgrade costs. So would the cost of upgrading be equivalent to upgrading the same pan-Asian (neutral) unit, or half of the Comintern production cost? Kind of like opposite of Allied?

K.Rokossovski wrote:

There are two reasons to build light tanks:
1) For their top speed, the fastest of them all except Axis mot. But to use it, you can't group them with anything. And then their lack of stealth reveal really pays off, they can so easily be ambushed, and they really need an AC in the vicinity.
2) to fight AC's, which is basically their dream opponent. AC is a very common unit with lots of them in most battles, but LT's are only really good against them when they're alone.

Both reasons aren't good enough for me to include them in my units set 90% of the time when I'm not playing AvA which has some different requirements.

GingerParty84 wrote:

Also, with the huge bonus to AT with commtrn, I can easily and quickly counter LTs...

Lord Crayfish wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they the ideal zerg rush unit on day 1?
Light tanks are cheaper than artillery (esp. in goods), do more damage against infantry (esp. in plains), and are faster. Armoured cars may be better against infantry but light tanks give them teeth. Arty may be useful in cleaning up the units in cities though.

I reckon knocking out 4 each of AC and LT and then making fast armoured stacks supplemented with starting infantry and some arty would be the ideal Day 1 tactic.

Or is artillery better? It's slower, weaker on day 1, has fewer HP, and is and more expensive, but it's potent in hills and can take zero damage.
(In Allied, I mean. Other doctrines may have their own day 1 strategies)

Cost:	Money	Food	Goods	Manpower	Steel	Oil	Total	Time	Dmg:	vs Inf.	vs. Light Armour
AC	1390	-	490	1060	740	620	4300	2 hrs		3.0 / 4.5	1.0 / 1.5
LT	1390	-	400	1060	800	650	4300	2,25 hrs		2.7	4.0
Arty	1230	560	1300(!)	1060	310	-	4460	2,25 hrs		1.5	2.0

Danieliyoverde123 wrote:

sometimes i open my games with light tanks but after day 4 i stop using them

Fox-Company wrote:

Lvl.1 is wholely ineffective if that armor stack has decent infantry with it, same point I stated before.

Komrade Khrushchev wrote:

It also depends on what kind of resources your country starts with. If you have plenty of metal and oil, then by all means this is a viable strategy, but if you are low on oil, you might not be able to do this, especially if you want to start churning out tacs.