Bring Back “Reveal Country Armies” Gold Spy Action

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    • Bring Back “Reveal Country Armies” Gold Spy Action

      As a gold user, I highly suggest that the “Reveal Country Armies” gold option should be brought back. I usually use it, not every day, but usually about 3 to 5 times per game to get a step ahead of my enemies. It’s probably the main thing I would spend gold on and I will probably not buy gold as much if it isn’t brought back. If people are using this function too much, simply increase the gold needed to do it. Maybe to 20K, which is more than double what it was before (about 9K)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by GuerillaBO ().

    • I don't personally use this feature, but I agree with you. The explanation they gave in the release notes did not make a lot of sense. Players getting "farmed"? Who is going to bother spying on a weak, "farmable" opponent? The other espionage features got removed because nobody used them, which makes more sense.
    • Afraid? You still have the upper hand, don't worry. What's the worst case? You might feel a sense of accomplishment winning without reveal armies.
      Isn't there still the spy option that reveals armies? Put 5 military spies on every piece of land and you should see the armies after day change. Use your gold to buy in-game cash for the spies.




      GuerillaBO wrote:

      I will probably not buy gold as much if it isn’t brought back.
      That's a threat btw.
    • Man, I hate gold spenders. For real it should be impossible to reveal all armies historically. I don't see why you would spend some 8000 gold and a lotta money.
      "Another thing that has escaped your notice, Gisgo, is even more amazing: that, although there are so many of them, there is not one among them called Gisgo."
    • z00mz00m wrote:

      I don't personally use this feature, but I agree with you. The explanation they gave in the release notes did not make a lot of sense. Players getting "farmed"? Who is going to bother spying on a weak, "farmable" opponent? The other espionage features got removed because nobody used them, which makes more sense.
      There are actually 4 main reasons for the removal of "reveal all":
      - It is too powerful of an action, you can avoid alot of losses by this action alone.
      - it made lesser actions like the "reveal local armies" redundant.
      - It did not scale into lategame, the price remained fixed even though you reveal perhaps 10x as many units in mid to lategame. The "reveal local armies" on the other hand scales naturally with the size of countries.
      - it created performance problems on bigger maps in lategame, because too many armies get revealed at the same time.


      Btw we know that this functionality is still existing within the sabotage spy as well, we are looking into that one too. You can basically apply the same points to it.
    • Yeah snooker that 5 spy thing. I'm tired of having to temporily redirect all my armies just before day change ( wouldn't have made any difference with any time of day Guerillo, didn't realize people used that! ). On the other hand using it sure has been a stress reliever at times. But would rather people be forced to use scouting with units more.
    • Scouting can only help you so much, when it takes 1-2 days to move an army across a continent. Imagine finding an invasion force 6 hours from the California coast, when most of your army is engaged across the Rocky Mountains. They will never make it back in time to repel the invasion.

      Taking away the "battle plan spy" places a greater emphasis on air power as the only force that can quickly rebase to a different part of the world.
    • freezy wrote:

      z00mz00m wrote:

      I don't personally use this feature, but I agree with you. The explanation they gave in the release notes did not make a lot of sense. Players getting "farmed"? Who is going to bother spying on a weak, "farmable" opponent? The other espionage features got removed because nobody used them, which makes more sense.
      There are actually 4 main reasons for the removal of "reveal all":- It is too powerful of an action, you can avoid alot of losses by this action alone.
      - it made lesser actions like the "reveal local armies" redundant.
      - It did not scale into lategame, the price remained fixed even though you reveal perhaps 10x as many units in mid to lategame. The "reveal local armies" on the other hand scales naturally with the size of countries.
      - it created performance problems on bigger maps in lategame, because too many armies get revealed at the same time.


      Btw we know that this functionality is still existing within the sabotage spy as well, we are looking into that one too. You can basically apply the same points to it.
      I agree that the feature is powerful, and that it needs to be curtailed (especially cause it isn't advertized which means noobs don't have access to it). However, it needs SOME sort of replacement, to get intel on potential enemies you can't scout on. That could be something like: total army composition, units and level researched, "float" of their army, or even some sort of "reveal local armies" for regular spies (even though I don't know how that one works exactly because it is a gold option). Giving no replacement at all is even more dangerous to gameplay, because there is no way to even be alerted to defend against giant enemy armies moving against you.
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.
    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      I agree that the feature is powerful, and that it needs to be curtailed (especially cause it isn't advertized which means noobs don't have access to it). However, it needs SOME sort of replacement, to get intel on potential enemies you can't scout on. That could be something like: total army composition, units and level researched, "float" of their army, or even some sort of "reveal local armies" for regular spies (even though I don't know how that one works exactly because it is a gold option). Giving no replacement at all is even more dangerous to gameplay, because there is no way to even be alerted to defend against giant enemy armies moving against you.

      Yes, exactly this. We don't want a situation where an invasion ends the game.

      It was historically very difficult to keep invasions completely secret. The defender may not know the exact composition of the invading army, or even its exact destination, but they had some idea that trouble was coming. The attacker, in turn, had some idea of what was waiting for them across the water.

      The military sabotage spies that turn into invasion plan spies solve these problems. Not in an obvious way, which isn't nice to new players, but most effective game mechanics are not obvious or nice to new players. Shoot and scoot. Stacking. Minimizing research diversity in favor of a smaller variety of more advanced units. Skip leveling. Upgrades in general, including how to plan ahead. New players get crushed for many reasons. Spies are not at the top of the list of reasons new players get crushed.
    • It would make for some surprises! Think of the dude who scouted the coast for day, then carefully sent invasion force taking extra long route to avoid detection only to get his mind read a day in advance. He could win the west coast battle but still has to win the war. It would add the stress back as one's mind thinks of all that could go wrong. Would be more real I think. Might nudge things to more conservative play.

      Spies for local intel would be good. In reveal all, at least only show the direction the army is moving, not the whole trip and time. Could even put them in the fog of war. Would be great to expand spy options. $30K to expand all coastal vision to twice the amount of motor infantry there. Maybe that stupid, but people could brainstorm allot more options for the espionage.
    • I'm all for new espionage options, sounds like fun.

      More conservative play, larger defensive armies, less excited about that. Players who want to buy the win can still build a golden army to stop an invasion. An information deficit hurts the planners more.
    • Thinking about it more Zoom you are right. Having a bunch of power sitting somewhere where they will see no action would just cause your active troops to be less effective.

      I'm a little late to the table getting my spies as I keep using the cash to buy resources. But one time I had sabotage spies damage my core cities so badly that had I slowed down and used the cash for defensive spies I would have been far further ahead resource wise. Just have to play knowing your armies are likely to be revealed and I have got used to that.

      GuerilloBO, you are not getting allot of support here, but there are other ways to get the leg up on intel. Use the five military spies on an opponents province that has no buildings on it and get a good 70% chance of reveal. I'm thinking you have no problem buying the premium account so level up your submarines higher then navy bombers and destroyers and send them out with fire control set to 'return fire', and keep probing with air power. Badly damaged destroyers can be used as sacrificial scouts, you will find other ways.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by ender611 ().

    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      or even some sort of "reveal local armies" for regular spies (even though I don't know how that one works exactly because it is a gold option).
      The "reveal local armies" is included in the regular intelligence spy already (I guess no one uses that one right now cos Sabotage spy is alot better, making normal intelligence spy redundant).

      Having reveal actions in the intel spy makes alot more sense, that's where new players would expect this. Having to place sabotage spies in empty provinces without buildings is counter intuitive, and defending against such spies by placing counter intelligence in a lot of random empty provinces also makes little sense. With Intelligence spies the spy-antispy interaction will make a lot more sense and will be more balanced.

      The reveal-all feature takes out alot of nuance from the game as it is essentially a map hack for super cheap. Without it scouting with planes, naval patrols and diplomatic interactions and smartly placed intel spies will be more useful again.

      Below is a screenshot of local spy reveals I got by just using a few regular Intelligence spies. This is much more balanced. The cool thing is that they also reveal troops in adjacent provinces, even if they belong to other nations.
      Images
      • intelspy.jpg

        206.58 kB, 858×693, viewed 9 times
    • I belive espianoge should be nerfed even more, heres why.

      Imagine your me, not the best player, and not the worst either. Having taken over the north american continent as mexico, you start to advance towards brazil. and then bravil, a gold user, reveals my invasion force, and completly obliterates my chances at winning.

      Espianoge is overpowered even with the prior nerf. Perhaps I'm just too simple minded to see it, but revealing any amount of the opponents army just seems to much of a pay to win system.

      I advocate agianst any gold actions, and espianoge is one of them.
      "What Airforce?"