Resources Reforged - Test it now on Beta!

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    • freezy wrote:

      Interesting, even in this thread different players claim that either Food, Oil or Metal is the scarcest resource for them. Also in Discord I have seen widely different takes on this question so far. So to me that indicates that it is rather balanced and depends a lot more on the playstyle / build order of the player. So maybe if you find yourself lacking with a specific resource, an adjustment in your build order is advised.

      Carking the 6th wrote:

      It is made even worse because they idiotically decided to make certain cities literally useless instead of converting them to the remaining resources.
      This is a "bug" in the old map version of the Europe map, in the new map version all is correct and converted to the other resources. If you create a match please choose the new Europe map at the bottom now. Although the old map version one should have been disabled by now.
      I have entered many 100p games since the new update was released , unless a player is level 20 and playing with borneo it is impossible to sell metal someone , noone wants it , comintern axis no matter everyone is looking for food and oil

    • Well, I've played a few games now with the new resource set up. Still don't like it.
      For me it's not a question of a certain resource being badly lacking in a country. Not much different than before the update. Just needs an adjustment to what you build industry for first.

      The issue I find is that the new system severely slows down production due to the lack of certain resources.
      Now, as mentioned above, many players are screaming for food or oil. But not the paying players I'll wager.

      That becomes the issue. Players who can't afford to buy what they need are at a severe disadvantage...again....

      So it doesn't matter folks. This game is evolving in order to guarantee that the paying players will always have easy meat to beat on. God forbid they should actually learn how to fight.

    • Nostroma wrote:

      Well, I've played a few games now with the new resource set up. Still don't like it.
      For me it's not a question of a certain resource being badly lacking in a country. Not much different than before the update. Just needs an adjustment to what you build industry for first.

      The issue I find is that the new system severely slows down production due to the lack of certain resources.
      Now, as mentioned above, many players are screaming for food or oil. But not the paying players I'll wager.

      That becomes the issue. Players who can't afford to buy what they need are at a severe disadvantage...again....

      So it doesn't matter folks. This game is evolving in order to guarantee that the paying players will always have easy meat to beat on. God forbid they should actually learn how to fight.
      most important resource is oil , playing greece with 5 oil ( 2 urban - 3 rural ) and ural with 3 oil ( 1 urban - 2 rural ) have huge difference
      even you want to produce only foot artillery and rocket artillery you need oil to develop secret base and ordnance
      both of urban and rural factories want oil
      you need oil to build nuclear power
      even commandos and paratroopers want oil
      if you want to produce infantry and artillery they don't need many metal remain only ships
      I'm looking for newbies on world to sell my metal because no one like it who is above 50 level at least
      everyday same conversations at newspaper '' Give me Food or Oil I will give Metal ''

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Undaunted ().

    • @freezy

      Sorry to say so, but have tried the new resource system and it is definitely NOT an improvement.

      No matter how you spin this, it is:
      - more boring to built more of the same
      - more boring in terms of unit choices
      - easyier. no complaints about food or oil or steel. the investment choice is easier (thus boring) for the industry.

      Having only 3 resources for all units, constructions and research is less challenging and definitely another downgrade.

      still, seeing all the complaints about shortages, Bytro/stillfront did not achieve its goal of making the game more playable for the 12yr olds on their phones.

      also the game is still slow and 12yr olds don't like slow, since 90% have an ADHD diagnosys.

      apologies if this sounds harsh, but you guys are failing on all fronts, because you don't understand your own product.
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & 12yr old fly-by phone players! :wallbash

      START MARKETING THIS GAME CORRECTLY!

      Premium/High Command should be the main source of Bytro's revenue.
      Get 1% to pay 90€/year and keep a few gold features => Bytro would easily make 2-3 million/yr on COW alone.
      COW can be your CashCOW!

    • vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      @freezy

      Sorry to say so, but have tried the new resource system and it is definitely NOT an improvement.

      No matter how you spin this, it is:
      - more boring to built more of the same
      - more boring in terms of unit choices
      - easyier. no complaints about food or oil or steel. the investment choice is easier (thus boring) for the industry.

      Having only 3 resources for all units, constructions and research is less challenging and definitely another downgrade.

      still, seeing all the complaints about shortages, Bytro/stillfront did not achieve its goal of making the game more playable for the 12yr olds on their phones.

      also the game is still slow and 12yr olds don't like slow, since 90% have an ADHD diagnosys.

      apologies if this sounds harsh, but you guys are failing on all fronts, because you don't understand your own product.

      I guess he said before players don't pay enough for premium and it is a very small part of their income

    • Undaunted wrote:

      vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      @freezy

      Sorry to say so, but have tried the new resource system and it is definitely NOT an improvement.

      No matter how you spin this, it is:
      - more boring to built more of the same
      - more boring in terms of unit choices
      - easyier. no complaints about food or oil or steel. the investment choice is easier (thus boring) for the industry.

      Having only 3 resources for all units, constructions and research is less challenging and definitely another downgrade.

      still, seeing all the complaints about shortages, Bytro/stillfront did not achieve its goal of making the game more playable for the 12yr olds on their phones.

      also the game is still slow and 12yr olds don't like slow, since 90% have an ADHD diagnosys.

      apologies if this sounds harsh, but you guys are failing on all fronts, because you don't understand your own product.
      I guess he said before players don't pay enough for premium and it is a very small part of their income
      Isn't that because they attract the wrong type of players for this product?
      So, that is a marketing issue.

      With the right marketing they would attract the right type of players, who wouldn't mind paying 90€ instead of 60€ per year for Premium.
      How many millions played Axis&Allies, Risk, World at War and played it fervently?

      A&A, WAW (and to a lesser extend Risk) are not fast games.
      Those games do not have cheats with gold/WBs and they are about strategy.
      Those games attracted multi-millions of loyal players.

      COW has all that these games have!
      COW can attract these players with the right marketing.

      Instead, Bytro/Stillfront tries to position COW amidst the flashy, fast P2W Chinese money traps for ADHD suffering, phone playing 12 yr olds or the likes of Candy Crush, Misty Island etc. for housewifes.
      That will never work out as intended, because the game is - despite dumbification over the past years - too SLOW and COMPLICATED for that kind of players.

      Improve the marketing.
      Promote the product for what it is: a good, slow, complicated and not so flashy strategy game.
      New players will thus not be disappointed.

      Keep the game well F2P, so that there is large pool of F2P-ers, of which the good ones will pose a challenge to more dedicated Premium/HC-players, causing some casual gold buying too.
      And the better Premium/HC-players will cause spenders to spend on gold to satisfy their ego with a bought win.

      As also partly in my foot note:
      - Position the game correctly. Improve the marketing! Attract the huge A&A and WAW crowd out there.
      - This will get the game more dedicted players.
      - When you get dedicated players, paying 90€/yr (approx. 100$/yr) instead of 60€/yr will not be a problem.
      - More dedicated players at 90€/yr will significantly improve the long term income from the game.

      Imagine 1% of all registered players paying 90€/yr => there are 14 million accounts in this game of which at least 90% left disappointed for lack of fiery explosions, speed and above all for ... having to think instead of just tapping the phone screen.

      Say you want to make $ 3 million from Premium. That requires 30.000 dedicated players worldwide only!
      If 10% of players takes Premium, you need a player base of 300.000 ... worldwide.

      The way they go about it now Bytro has 14 million registered accounts of almost 14 million useless twats.
      That says something about how succesful and thought through they are positioning the product...


      Market COW correctly and more truthfully and the product can fly with the millions of A&A/WAW players and alike.
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & 12yr old fly-by phone players! :wallbash

      START MARKETING THIS GAME CORRECTLY!

      Premium/High Command should be the main source of Bytro's revenue.
      Get 1% to pay 90€/year and keep a few gold features => Bytro would easily make 2-3 million/yr on COW alone.
      COW can be your CashCOW!

    • Carking the 6th wrote:

      Even if there is an “evil organization” it would moreso be the shareholders and investors. But considering Stillfront is struggling so hard right now I do not fully blame them for desperately trying to make back their losses. A shame the market doesn’t promote quality in games and media instead of general attention grabbing slop. The developers of the game don’t deserve to suffer seeing their hard work slowly degrade while pressured by the community they’ve served for a decade and the people they rely on to feed their families.
      Is there a way we could help Bytro/Stillfront out financially?

    • Undaunted wrote:

      most important resource is oil , playing greece with 5 oil ( 2 urban - 3 rural ) and ural with 3 oil ( 1 urban - 2 rural ) have huge differenceeven you want to produce only foot artillery and rocket artillery you need oil to develop secret base and ordnance
      both of urban and rural factories want oil
      you need oil to build nuclear power
      even commandos and paratroopers want oil
      if you want to produce infantry and artillery they don't need many metal remain only ships
      I'm looking for newbies on world to sell my metal because no one like it who is above 50 level at least
      everyday same conversations at newspaper '' Give me Food or Oil I will give Metal ''
      We'll shift a little bit of oil costs to metal around in one of the next updates, maybe this will help.

      vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      apologies if this sounds harsh, but you guys are failing on all fronts, because you don't understand your own product.
      KPIs of the update look promising so far. We'll see if it stays like that or not.

      General Sherman wrote:

      Is there a way we could help Bytro/Stillfront out financially?
      Buy stuff in the shop I guess :D Preferably on desktop / mobile webshop.

    • @freezy I pray the results of the dumbification project yield Bytro more income!
      I really do!
      Maybe, when finally making enough $$$, further dumbification projects can behalted?
      Would you consider that possible?
      Or will we, no matter what, end up with 1 province, 1 resource, 1 unit and ... 1 Victory on auction?

      I know you are not a proponent of some of the changes nor are you the initiator and I do not hold you repsonsible.
      You are however in the position (I hope) to relay some of the messages from your player base to the 'higher-ups'....

      Let them try to reach a real public for this once great strategy game.
      Let them try to reach the old A&A and WaW crowd, now busy with wifes, kids, careers and not having time to sit 2-3 days at a table playing the board game (WaW sometimes lasting a week even....gawd, the scores I might have had for exams if I hadn't played... well, they wouldn't have made a difference as I am not employed by anyone but do the 'employing').
      But that crowd still loves strategy and they now have phones, tablets, laptops, PCs and a real income.
      That crowd, and they are legion, should be tapped for new players.
      Not the ADHD suffering 12yr olds... COW lacks the action and fiery explosions after all.
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & 12yr old fly-by phone players! :wallbash

      START MARKETING THIS GAME CORRECTLY!

      Premium/High Command should be the main source of Bytro's revenue.
      Get 1% to pay 90€/year and keep a few gold features => Bytro would easily make 2-3 million/yr on COW alone.
      COW can be your CashCOW!

    • Despite probably boring Freezy and other readers out of their minds, I will keep posting my experience with the 'improved' ( ) resource system.

      Metal for some reason is never short in my games, Oil always is and Food is manageable.
      Because of Oil and to a lesser extend Food now being über-Important the consequences for my play style are significant in early- to mid-game:

      - I won't waste rss on developing multiple unit types needing exactly the same. Before you wanted to, because you had more different rss and differing requirements, opening up more choices. Now you would be crazy to do so.

      - Therefore certain units are now practically obsolete (again: early to mid-game; late game everything is luxery choice or you are dead in the water already), like:
      1. RA; why develop RA, construct the Secret Lab and produce the more expensive RA, if I can get multiple Arty for the same?
      2. Infantry; why built Inf if I can get Arty for the same rss? Metal and Food going into Local Industry early-game further prohibit building Baracks and production of Inf.
      3. Tanks; already I was not in favor of them, but even LTs are now out of the question; let alone MTs or even HTs. The now seemingly crazy cost for development, facilities and production (though obviously there is no real difference, but it is just clearer how useless they are compared to the investment) make it clear that you rather have a bunch of only 1 type instead. For me that would be only ACs instead.
      - Other units become more prevalent, like;
      1. Artillery (Food+Metal)
      2. AC (Metal+Oil)
      3. Aircraft (Food+Oil)


      Ofc Industry development is still of the utmost importance, thus for lack of Food, now City Industry gets earlier attention for the surplus of Metal is evident and the Oil cost is relatively low compared to the absolute output increase. That is an interesting change; I give you that.

      All in all, the rss-changes have impacted the game play significantly, but not for the better. It has limited choices overall, because there are no required alternatives to certain previous impossibilities, caused by limitations on 1 rss and having the other.
      This is a result of having to choose how to spend only 3 types of rss, obvioulsy leading to elimination of certain buildings and unit types consuming the same, but not giving the same quality output.
      I think RA is a very good example of this. One would defintely always have developed RA at some point, as an alternative to Artillery and its advantages vs Inf-class. Now its is no longer a possibly good alternative, but first and foremost a competitor for the same rss, which outweighs the tiny advantages by far.

      This goes for more choices in the game, which thus has become more monotone. And more monotone = NOT GOOD!


      A possible outcome of this change in the rss-system for me is:
      - be less agressive and built up Industry and rss and WBs over Day 1 and produce Arty with excess (given the relatively good Metal and Food availability). Ofc I would wipe out some neighbour with available troops.
      - Day 2 spend all rss and WBs on development of Tacs and rapidly produce a series of Tacs and additional ACs and possibly more Arty and attack and wipe out all further neighbours. In the future I might forego the Arty even for agressive duties, it being so slow. The latter freeing Oil from some Food production investment, then being free for more ACs.

      Thus I see myself entirely focussing on ACs and Tacs. Good development? I don't think so.
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & 12yr old fly-by phone players! :wallbash

      START MARKETING THIS GAME CORRECTLY!

      Premium/High Command should be the main source of Bytro's revenue.
      Get 1% to pay 90€/year and keep a few gold features => Bytro would easily make 2-3 million/yr on COW alone.
      COW can be your CashCOW!

      The post was edited 4 times, last by vonlettowvorbeck ().

    • vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      Despite probably boring Freezy and other readers out of their minds, I will keep posting my experience with the 'improved' ( ) resource system.

      Metal for some reason is never short in my games, Oil always is and Food is manageable.
      Because of Oil and to a lesser extend Food now being über-Important the consequences for my play style are significant in early- to mid-game:

      - I won't waste rss on developing multiple unit types needing exactly the same. Before you wanted to, because you had more different rss and differing requirements, opening up more choices. Now you would be crazy to do so.

      - Therefore certain units are now practically obsolete (again: early to mid-game; late game everything is luxery choice or you are dead in the water already), like:
      1. RA; why develop RA, construct the Secret Lab and produce the more expensive RA, if I can get multiple Arty for the same?
      2. Infantry; why built Inf if I can get Arty for the same rss? Metal and Food going into Local Industry early-game further prohibit building Baracks and production of Inf.
      3. Tanks; already I was not in favor of them, but even LTs are now out of the question; let alone MTs or even HTs. The now seemingly crazy cost for development, facilities and production (though obviously there is no real difference, but it is just clearer how useless they are compared to the investment) make it clear that you rather have a bunch of only 1 type instead. For me that would be only ACs instead.
      - Other units become more prevalent, like;
      1. Artillery (Food+Metal)
      2. AC (Metal+Oil)
      3. Aircraft (Food+Oil)


      Ofc Industry development is still of the utmost importance, thus for lack of Food, now City Industry gets earlier attention for the surplus of Metal is evident and the Oil cost is relatively low compared to the absolute output increase. That is an interesting change; I give you that.

      All in all, the rss-changes have impacted the game play significantly, but not for the better. It has limited choices overall, because there are no required alternatives to certain previous impossibilities, caused by limitations on 1 rss and having the other.
      This is a result of having to choose how to spend only 3 types of rss, obvioulsy leading to elimination of certain buildings and unit types consuming the same, but not giving the same quality output.
      I think RA is a very good example of this. One would defintely always have developed RA at some point, as an alternative to Artillery and its advantages vs Inf-class. Now its is no longer a possibly good alternative, but first and foremost a competitor for the same rss, which outweighs the tiny advantages by far.

      This goes for more choices in the game, which thus has become more monotone. And more monotone = NOT GOOD!


      A possible outcome of this change in the rss-system for me is:
      - be less agressive and built up Industry and rss and WBs over Day 1 and produce Arty with excess (given the relatively good Metal and Food availability). Ofc I would wipe out some neighbour with available troops.
      - Day 2 spend all rss and WBs on development of Tacs and rapidly produce a series of Tacs and additional ACs and possibly more Arty and attack and wipe out all further neighbours. In the future I might forego the Arty even for agressive duties, it being so slow. The latter freeing Oil from some Food production investment, then being free for more ACs.

      Thus I see myself entirely focussing on ACs and Tacs. Good development? I don't think so.
      I agree with you

      Armored cars , Planes , Artilleries are really enough to invade somewhere for players and players can hold some anti-air at cities , if player bomb enemy's core provinces with strategic bombers if enemy prefers enemy can keep to travelling to world with medium heavy tanks , enemy is dead

      metal for beginners , metal is useless , players don't need level 6 battleships or level 6 medium tanks to win game

    • freezy wrote:

      Undaunted wrote:

      most important resource is oil , playing greece with 5 oil ( 2 urban - 3 rural ) and ural with 3 oil ( 1 urban - 2 rural ) have huge differenceeven you want to produce only foot artillery and rocket artillery you need oil to develop secret base and ordnance
      both of urban and rural factories want oil
      you need oil to build nuclear power
      even commandos and paratroopers want oil
      if you want to produce infantry and artillery they don't need many metal remain only ships
      I'm looking for newbies on world to sell my metal because no one like it who is above 50 level at least
      everyday same conversations at newspaper '' Give me Food or Oil I will give Metal ''
      We'll shift a little bit of oil costs to metal around in one of the next updates, maybe this will help
      Please can team change hp bar design too ?? I don't think any player is happy with it , it is really hard to understand how many hp have units and find dark black line at hp bar , I only can see yellow or green colours but it doesn't show us enough information

    • vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      Maybe, when finally making enough $$$, further dumbification projects can behalted?
      Would you consider that possible?
      Or will we, no matter what, end up with 1 province, 1 resource, 1 unit and ... 1 Victory on auction?

      I know you are not a proponent of some of the changes nor are you the initiator and I do not hold you repsonsible.
      You are however in the position (I hope) to relay some of the messages from your player base to the 'higher-ups'....@freezy I pray the results of the dumbification project yield Bytro more income!
      Current and other near future changes are deemed necessary to improve certain important KPIs to ensure longevity and marketability of the game in the coming years. When that has been fulfilled the team will probably concentrate on other KPIs.

      Also please let's remain realistic and don't be so hyperbolic - in regards to the "1 province, 1 resource, 1 unit" etc. comment, people have been repeating it but its obviously just a bad joke that does not require any further comment.

      The community opinion about the update has been relayed many times already, there was a lot more chatter about it on the Discord. Even the petition got forwarded, so the responsible people are in the Know.

      Despite this there might be some more changes/features coming up which are meant to adress the KPIs I mentioned before.

      If you wanna read my bet which big feature might come afterwards, a feature that is liked by players and still fulfills the company's needs: Check out the new Hero (Generals) feature in S1914. That one has been a real success - most players like it, it adds more tactical gameplay options, motivates to progress with your account (and de-incentivizes multis) and also brings in the revenue that warrants investing in sucor so (don't see this as a promise :D).

    • vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      Despite probably boring Freezy and other readers out of their minds, I will keep posting my experience with the 'improved' ( ) resource system.
      Thanks for the detailed rundown (altthough it indeed is kinda repeating what you said already :D). I still forwarded the feedback as I can agree to some of the points you raised. Since the chance is low that the resource update gets reversed I see some potential in other solutions, for example increasing the strengths & weaknesses of units even more, so they become more distinct and people have more reasons for producing different units irregardless of which resource types they cost. We could also rework the research costs to make it more worthwhile again to go broad and not only deep. If you have other ideas that adress this and does not involve reverting the update, feel free to share :D

      Undaunted wrote:

      Please can team change hp bar design too ?? I don't think any player is happy with it , it is really hard to understand how many hp have units and find dark black line at hp bar , I only can see yellow or green colours but it doesn't show us enough information
      Yes the HP bar color change is a bug, should get fixed soon.

    • vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      @freezy I pray the results of the dumbification project yield Bytro more income!
      I really do!
      Maybe, when finally making enough $$$, further dumbification projects can behalted?
      Would you consider that possible?
      Or will we, no matter what, end up with 1 province, 1 resource, 1 unit and ... 1 Victory on auction?

      I know you are not a proponent of some of the changes nor are you the initiator and I do not hold you repsonsible.
      You are however in the position (I hope) to relay some of the messages from your player base to the 'higher-ups'....

      Let them try to reach a real public for this once great strategy game.
      Let them try to reach the old A&A and WaW crowd, now busy with wifes, kids, careers and not having time to sit 2-3 days at a table playing the board game (WaW sometimes lasting a week even....gawd, the scores I might have had for exams if I hadn't played... well, they wouldn't have made a difference as I am not employed by anyone but do the 'employing').
      But that crowd still loves strategy and they now have phones, tablets, laptops, PCs and a real income.
      That crowd, and they are legion, should be tapped for new players.
      Not the ADHD suffering 12yr olds... COW lacks the action and fiery explosions after all.
      Please stop being ableist and STOP YAPPING ABOUT THE "vIcToRy AuCtiOn". It's not going to happen
      I'm from Egypt
      I have nothing else to write. Have a nice day :D